new & I have an idea for a stock

Hi guys, I am new here and I am newer to the whole AK and PSL thing. I got a PSL about 6 months ago and fell in love instantly. I recently did my first trigger job and it was on my PSL. IT now has a .020" creep and a clean 4# pull.

Any how I have been searching for months now for a better stock and am really unsatisied with what is out there. I really like the PRS stocks made by Magpul but I do not like the way the adaptor drops the stock down and back.

So.... Out of frustration I decided to design my own version for the PSL.
I am looking at getting a stock duplicator and I found a source for some laminated blanks.

So here is a picture of the stock. What I would like to know is how much interest is there in these if I were produce them.

The adjustments will be with a stainless screw and nut and the pins and sockets will be of aluminum.

I am purely speculating, but the laminated version would most likely run some where around $400 because of the labor involved and if they seem to be popular the price would go down and eventually I would like to have them made of synthetic. At that point they would most likely be in the same range as Magpul's. Also I would probably make some for the AK and the Saiga as well.

So what do you guys think? Should I go ahead with this or do think I am barking up the wrong tree.

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/2stroketech/pslstockmodified-1.jpg

I think the biggest downside would be the price. Its a great looking stock and one I'd consider but with Ironwood's stock being an alternative to the Romanian wood and even the polymer set, it doesn't seem cost effective unless it can match either. Thats just me though. :(

I think wood is the best way to go. Im willing to bet you could sell more stocks if you could make one that was just a bit longer than the factory one but looked pretty much identical to the SVD's(leather cheek weld and all).

Centerfire sells the highly regarded modified SVD synthetic for $180 and Ironwood is reputed to make a nice laminated stock. At $400, I think you'd be fighting a seriously up-hill battle to sell many of them...

From the perspective of making one for yourself - there is no substitute for the satisfaction you get from making your own.

I like the stock that comes on the PSL, now that I've added an inch to the LOP using the AK "grenade launcher" butt pad. The only changes I have planned is to re-finish the wood to make it a bit of a deeper red/orange and get the front handguard to mated the hue of the butt stock.

Good luck on your project and please post some photos of it.

dude, the stock looks nice. personally i would try to pull the tail up a bit to match the same plane as the body of the rifle. one of my least favorite things about the oem stock is the sudden downward angle of the butt stock. the only down side is your price. im an ex finish carpenter cabinets recessed panel doors and such. 400 bucks for plywood is a bit much bro. just my opinion. but i like your design.

The laminate is the cheap part. It is the 20 machined metal pieces that cost the money. The sockets, pins, screws and knurreled wheels that add up. Then there is the estimated 4 hours of build time.

Now i did not think that I could sell that many. I do like the idea though of building some that are identical to the PSL but longer as well. Those I could see being able to produce for less than $100 each with out any hardware.


Any ideas, sugestions or advice is ALWAYS welcome.

BTW: Thanks for the input already. It is all taken in and mulled over.

It is the 20 machined metal pieces that cost the money. The sockets, pins, screws and knurreled wheels that add up.

It would probably save you a lot of time and effort to source those parts out than to machine them in house...

Give a look-see to some companies that specialize in that area like McMaster Carr ->

http://www.mcmaster.com/#

[QUOTE=Slick]It would probably save you a lot of time and effort to source those parts out than to machine them in house...

Give a look-see to some companies that specialize in that area like McMaster Carr ->

http://www.mcmaster.com/#[/QUOTE

true! to the muthA f-in that!!!! :rofl_smal .....just kiddin.... but slick is right! My buddy and I worked out a bunch of rich bastard bird feeders years back. they included milled brass columns if you can believe it, about 20 columns per feeder. we paid a local machinist a buck per piece! these are hand milled!!

Centerfire sells the highly regarded modified SVD synthetic for $180 and Ironwood is reputed to make a nice laminated stock. At $400, I think you'd be fighting a seriously up-hill battle to sell many of them...

From the perspective of making one for yourself - there is no substitute for the satisfaction you get from making your own.

I like the stock that comes on the PSL, now that I've added an inch to the LOP using the AK "grenade launcher" butt pad. The only changes I have planned is to re-finish the wood to make it a bit of a deeper red/orange and get the front handguard to mated the hue of the butt stock.

Good luck on your project and please post some photos of it.

that set at centerfire has been backordered since god knows when. i canceled my order months ago, never could get a straight answer other than "we dont know"

Your level of frustration is understood. However my involvement is in assisting fellow PSL owners toward their goals – that’s it.

The stock-set that I mentioned is here (in a well replied to thread)->

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18052

I'm not ordering one - because I don't see the point in spending that much on a PSL as it's only a turd-world version of a "sniper gun".

Sorry if that sounds "harsh" or against the grain - but the truth is that I'm a realistic person and know that there's NO semi-auto gun with that can hold "sniper accuracy" for the price a PSL can be had for...

Again – sorry if I’ve disappointed anyone with my stated expectations of this weapon’s platform. If anyone wants better accuracy, then I suggest that you look at other options. I say this with a reasonable level of confidence that anyone that puts any stock into my recommendations understands that I shoot a PSL for no other reason than it being the best option for a “fairly accurate high-power rifle” that affords the opportunity for the owner to buy LOTS of ammunition for CHEAP. Practice is key in shooting sports. Buy a PSL and shoot all you can!

Trust me - your Remington 700 won't leave you out of jealousy...

"I'm not ordering one - because I don't see the point in spending that much on a PSL as it's only a turd-world version of a "sniper gun".


Again – sorry if I’ve disappointed anyone with my stated expectations of this weapon’s platform."
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I actually see Your point. Although I am quite sure this rifle is capable of much more in terms of accuracy than most of us usually produce. I think Slick is on the money. While a better fitting stock may offer more comfort, it ain't gonna get ya $400.00 worth of "more accuracy" ;)

My personal feelings on most of this glitzy high cost gizmobilia as in magpul stocks quad rails and lasers commin outta your frickin head, is that most of this crap is superficial. If ya want better performance from this rifle start by feeding it balanced ammo. :wink_smal

klickitat, I think your stock looks pretty sweet. Keep moving forward, see what you can come up with. If you can find a way to compete-$$$, You will sell this option!!

I agree with Slick to some extent in that I'll choose the least expensive methods to make a rifle comfortable...however, I couldn't ask for much more than a $700 AK that shoots 3/4 MOA. Hell, I got rid of a heavy barrel Remington 700 to get one 'cause it was overrated...and boring. The cost of ammo required to get good accuracy out of that makes even 7N1 seem like plinking ammo in comparison.

One thing that deserves mention regarding my feelings about the PSL is the prohibitive cost of hand loading for the rifle. I’ve always been able to experiment with loads and find something to get better accuracy and this no doubt would be true for the PSL. If I could load a round of 7.62x54R for the same price I can load .308 – then I’d go that route. Given that I can buy a complete live (surplus) round for the cost of a bare bullet alone, I’m just not inclined to.

Besides, there’s a real part of me that truly enjoys just letting the brass fly and not feel guilty about not picking it up or worry about losing it. From that perspective, I don’t mind sacrificing a bit of accuracy for the added convenience and enjoyment.

Some things may not make sense to every one but then there are some things that just work for some.

To me the PSL is a great package. It handles well and is in a great caliber. I like the fact that the surplus ammo is cheap and readily available and this makes it very attractive these days.

I just like the thing. Now I want it to be everything it could be. Accuracy has 90% to do with the barrel (we are talking the machine not the shooter) the rest is comfort for the shooter. Now for me the stock is short and would prefer that it fit better so that it was more enjoyable for me.

Why do some people spend $700 on an AR 15 VLTOR upper receiver when you can buy a complete upper for less? Why do some spend $2000 for flamed walnut, when birch will only set you back $75? Well it's because some one loves the gun and wants it that much nicer.

I appriciate that people take a gun for what it is and leave it at that. I also know that there are some sick individuals out there, who are just like me and can't help themselves.

So is this stock going to actually run $400? I doubt it, but until they actually hit production it is hard to say for sure. I hope not. Let's give this a thought though. $700 for a gun, $400 for target furniture, 1 hour of time for a trigger job and $600 into having the gun rebarrelled.
That is only $1700 for a custom semi auto target rifle. That is a great deal and not out of line at all when you stop to think about it. Now is that going to be a 1000 yrd sniper rifle? Mostly like not, but hell I can't shoot out past 600 yards consistantly any how.


Here is another thought.... sitting around the camp fire. "I bet my POS PSL can outshoot your bolt gun." How much fun would that be? hehehehe

Bottom line: I love the PSL for what ever reason, (I have AR's, model 70's and 700's and like them, but not as much as my PSL) and I think there are others out there that love them as much as I do and want to play with them.

Please keep your comments coming. I like ALL of them. Good,bad or indifferent they are all good views and well worth noting. I will try to accomodate as many views as possible to make my future product as desirable as possible to as many as possible.

BTW, I seen the other thread with the walnut stock set for $185. Nice stuff, at a good price. I just might have to have one of those set ups as well.

I am one sick puppy.

Yeah I get all worked up on My PSL too. I can relate. Like Slick said, build it! You only stand to gain by starting and finishing such a project. If nothing more than knowledge. I say do it! Build the damn thing!!! :rofl_smal J/k but post pics and stuff! :mad_small not kiddin.

I agree with a lot of klickitat's recent post. When I buy a gun if there is an option to make it better than its current configuration I'll look into it. Not to say I'd go out and "bubba" an antique or historic firearm. The PSL is a wonderful platform to modify if the funds are there.

I posted in another thread recently about what I'd go for in a custom built PSL.

Something in the neighborhood of...

*Milled receiver
*Heavier barrel
*Non-ribbed top cover
*Free-floating the barrel if possible
*New trigger

and so forth. It would set me back a ton and not to mention the time involved but thats the beauty of having a custom rifle. Might seem wasted on such a low end rifle, some would argue I'd be better off buying an M1A Match-grade rifle but it doesn't feel the same when you buy something thats packed in a box ready to go.

I think being "a sick puppy" is a requirement of the files, you`re def. not alone. Anyone who wants to expand on the available parts for ak`s(esp. the psl) is welcome here.

Don't feel alone here. I've long been in the camp that gas operated rifles can be as accurate as bolt guns, but it takes a lot of tweaking and know how to get there.

Is it worth it? It is to me.

Do I want to turn a PSL into a tack driver? You damned skippy, I do!

Will I ever be able to do it? Probably, I got there with my AR-10.

Will it be expensive? Likely, but it's my money.

Yes, I too, am a sick puppy, & I don' wanna get well! So there! NYAH!

please, I do not want any one thinking that I am argueing with them. While I am expressing my opinions on the matter, I am also here to learn from others and I respect everyones opinions on the matter.

I will be posting progress as I move forward on this project. Right now I am in the process of finding suppliers for the aluminum and stainless parts. Not as easy as one would think.

Any how please keep any and all coments coming. I apriciate all of them.

please, I do not want any one thinking that I am argueing with them. While I am expressing my opinions on the matter, I am also here to learn from others and I respect everyones opinions on the matter.

I don’t think anyone is “arguing” here.. What we all share in common is that we are owners of the PSL / SVD / NMD rifles. After that, our personal differences are probably very diverse and that’s why people are (respectfully) sharing their opposing opinions.

I’d guess that I’m probably a LOT older than many of the other participants here and because of that; my idea of where the PSL fits into my collection is going to be much different than others. Back in the mid 80’s I was in my mid 20’s and buying military semi autos that are nicer and better finished than the PSL. My Poly-tech AK set me back a tad over $200 and my Valmet M76 was $479. I paid $719 for my Galil .308 ARM – and yeah, those were 1980’s dollars, but all of those guns were built by the original factories and brand new / unissued guns. I remember IMI Uzi’s going “on sale” every other week or so for $499 and any of the HK rifles were under $500 from FJ Vollmer.

It’s really hard for me to see all those guns and opportunities GONE, but being forced to get rid of guns because of bans don’t really “disarm the gun owner” as intended by the lib-tards. All it really does is flood the streets with guns that had to be gotten rid of and proliferated guns that were still legal. Were it not for the bans, I probably never would have gotten to own a FAL. Because FAL’s can be built in a legal CA-configuration (and are easy to load and operate in that configuration), I’ve wound up with 3 of them and have to say that I think the FAL is one of the finest battle rifles there is.

I can certainly relate to you guys that are willing to spend lots of money improving your PSL’s – because I’ve done the same with FAL’s. While I’m not going to dump a lot of money into my PSL for the reasons I’ve stated in prior posts – I really enjoy reading about other people’s projects and their results. So just because I wouldn’t encourage anyone to spend lavishly on their PSL, that doesn’t mean I’m in any way against it. I say do what makes you happy – it’s YOUR rifle!

I'm certainly not arguing, rather relating my thoughts, wants, and experiences.

Some of my ideas may seem a little radical, and overly expensive, but, as I'm not rich, I have to use my head and experience to acheive that which others may achieve through "throwing money at the problem".