help a newbie

I’ve been reading up on the subject for a few weeks to do my homework on the topic, but I’m still a little lost in all the information. I had no idea buying an AK would be so complicated and want to grab one before it gets even harder. Sorry if this is long; I know you guys probably like to talk AK’s, though, so as a newbie I humbly request your help with any parts of the following.

Mostly, what I’m concerned with is having a pretty accurate rifle that has no workmanship flaws, that won’t jam, be rusted when I buy it, and that will have a long life without falling apart. A decent finish would be nice too, but mostly I just want it to work smoothly and be well-built, feel good in the hands, etc. The problem is that I have no idea how the market is for AKs, where to look, and what the usual procedure is for buying a decent one is.

As I understand it, I can try my luck with a Romanian or Bulgarian, but there are no guarantees. Apparently some batches are good, some are bad, so it’s a crapshoot. I’m not sure what the going price is at the moment for a decent Romanian/Bulgarian AK, somewhere around 600? From what I’ve seen, it is possible to get a perfectly good shooter with one of these, but you have to really check out the rifle first, since there are a lot of crappy ones in the mix too. Canted sights, magazine wobble, bent gas tubes, overall fit and workmanship issues, etc.

So the question here is, how easy is it to find a good one that won’t have any defects, and how much would I be paying? Is the only real option to go to gun shows and buy one in person?

So, option two: I can shell out $1,000 and get an Arsenal or AK-USA. From what I’ve seen, Arsenal have a few problems here and there but are highly regarded, and I’ve heard nothing but positive raves about AK-USA. The only thing that gets me is paying a grand for an AK. I really like the AK build, and I know prices have been going up, but for that much, I could also be getting an American-made AR-15, and be getting $1,000 of rifle and $0 of extra cosmetic work just to go around 922r compliance. I don’t want to get into an AR/AK debate here, and I’d really like an AK, but I just wanted to raise that issue of what I’m paying for, since it seems like nothing under $1,000 in the AK world is free of problems, and even then it’s not a done deal. Also, what does it mean for AK-USA to say “Maximum acceptable rate of fire 80 rounds per minute (sustained aimed fire)”? Is that just saying it’s a semi-auto, or is it a structural issue? If I recall correctly, they use the 1mm stamped Saiga receiver, which can warp with heat. Is this gun going to hold up?

Anyway, to sum up, this would be my first rifle, and I don’t have a lot of time or know-how to be tinkering around with repairs or to be sending it all over the place to get worked on; it needs to be in great condition when I buy it and I’d like it to last a long time. I know that’s probably asking a lot. So I’m leaning towards the AK-USA rifle, but I just wanted to make sure it would be as good as everyone says it is, and check what you guys would recommend for me. The other possibility is one of these:

http://www.arsenalinc.com/slr106frds.htm

Either 7.62 or 5.56 NATO would be fine for me; I care more about the rifle quality than the caliber. 5.45 seems harder to find good ammo in.

Sorry for the long message; it’s just a lot of information to keep track of for a first-timer. Thanks for any help.

You picked a fine rifle but there's no way I'd spend over $700 for any AK variant with a stamped rcvr. I recently bought a LNIB Arsenal SAM5 (milled 5.56, rail, bayo lug) for only $950. It came with a sling, oil bottle/cleaning kit, 4 30 round waffle mags, and 1 Russian 45 round mag. For the price of that stamped Arsenal you could buy a damn Colt LE6920. -Not suggesting the AR is better, just putting price in perspective. Try gunjoker and theakforum.com and keep tab on this forum too. Prices are coming down now so you should be able to find a better deal.

Or you could look around for a chinese pre-ban in $850 -1K range. No 922r BS involved it's all chinese made and has a real nice trigger. Some of the Arsenal stuff has been known for poor finish quality (the paint comes off if you use anything other than CLP). If you want to get an AK for cheap you'll either have to do some inspection of the rifle in person or find a very motivated seller who needs $$ right away. In the end there is no free lunch, you'll have to put in the time and legwork to come up with a better quality cheaper model or hand over the cash for a higher end gun that you probably won't have any issues with.

Careful shopping might turn up a Norinco for under 1K whcih has a thicker reciever from the factory anyway.

Thanks for the replies; sounds like you confirm what I originally thought. Either spend a lot of time searching and get lucky, or pay extra. Arsenal seems a bit too risky for how much they charge.

The AK-USA seems to have a better finish and customer service. The only issue is the stamped 1mm receiver, it seems. I’ll call to get more info. Seems like the best AK I’m going to find, though…

What happened with the VEPRs? Robinson Arms’ page says they are out of stock, and they haven’t answered an email I sent.

The stamped 1mm rcvr is heat treated to mil spec and not going to warp due to heat from repeat fire. You'll toast your handguards long before that happens. It might warp if you run it over with a jeep though so don't do that.

You picked a fine rifle but there's no way I'd spend over $700 for any AK variant with a stamped rcvr. I recently bought a LNIB Arsenal SAM5 (milled 5.56, rail, bayo lug) for only $950. It came with a sling, oil bottle/cleaning kit, 4 30 round waffle mags, and 1 Russian 45 round mag. For the price of that stamped Arsenal you could buy a damn Colt LE6920. -Not suggesting the AR is better, just putting price in perspective. Try gunjoker and theakforum.com and keep tab on this forum too. Prices are coming down now so you should be able to find a better deal.

Do you say that about the stamped receiver because of accuracy issues or because of reliability issues?

There's a nice Arsenal SA-M7R with a milled receiver on gunbroker, but it's the same price as a new one; $1500.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135596132

These are out of stock, though, so maybe this is a good deal?

Do you say that about the stamped receiver because of accuracy issues or because of reliability issues?

There's a nice Arsenal SA-M7R with a milled receiver on gunbroker, but it's the same price as a new one; $1500.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135596132

These are out of stock, though, so maybe this is a good deal?

3 years ago I'm told those were selling for $700. I know of one for sale on another forum for $1300. That's about as high as I'd go.

There is nothing wrong with stamped rcvrs btw. They function just as well as the milled rcvrs, the only differences is they are way less expensive to manufacture and they do reduce the rifle's overall weight by a bit. The reason I won't pay Arsenal's price for a stamped rcvr is because the cost to manufacture those rifles is so low compared to their retail price.

I'd rather buy a NoDakSpud rcvr an build a damn parts kit in my garage than pay Arsenal's price. I could even pay a builder if I didn't have the tooling or time and I'd still save $500.

What are you looking for in an AK, a shooter, investment, heirloom, or an Apocalypse Smiter?

Thanks for clarifying on the receivers.

As for what I want it for, all of the above. I’m going to take good care of it and I want it to last a long time, so it’s not just a plinker or a “mud gun”. I’ll study up on how to clean and maintain it, but I’d prefer not to have to be fixing it up myself too much, and I don’t think I’d do a good job with a parts kit.

Prices have gone up in the last few years, but price depends not just on how much it costs to build, but on supply and demand too, right? It makes sense they'd be costing more, and I'm not sure if they'll be going down too much anytime soon...

There's not much to maintain, just keep it clean. They rarely break and you can do most all repairs yourself after your familiar with the design.

The AK will outlast you as long as you're not running huge quantities of ammo thru it. There are AKs' out there that have been around since the 1960's that are still firing. Just take a look at any third world country of your choice and ask yourself what are the odds these guys are doing any maintainence on their rifles...??

It's strength has always been it's reliability under adverse conditions.

That's why I want one...

Anyway, I'll go for a stamped receiver then, since the difference in price with the milled can be up to $500. As soon as I can pay for it, I'll look into getting an AK-USA, since they seem to be solid rifles. In the meantime, I'll see if anything cheaper comes along.

I wouldn't sink $1,000 in an AK, unless it was a super rare rifle built on a milled receiver.

If you are careful, you can get a decent shooter for half that much.

I don't recommend buying a Romy or Yugo, sight unseen. I have a Century Yugo underfolder, but I went over that thing like a hawk before I bought it. You can still get a Yugo underfolder around here for 650 all day long.

Be sure the front sight assembly and rear sight block aren't canted to the sides, pull the bolt to the rear and ride it forward to make sure you don't have any hang-ups when the bolt goes across the trigger (this is a common problem with Tapco G2 trigger groups), take a good look at the gas tube to make sure there aren't any dents or dings that could impede the functioning of the gas piston, if you are getting an underfolder, lock it back and check the stock for wobble (a little is to be expected, but beware excessive wobble), put an unloaded mag in the weapon and give it a good shake to see if there is any mag wobble. I would recommend field stripping the weapon to check for rust in hidden places (like the gas piston). If you aren't familiar enough with an AK to field strip it, ask the gunsmith to do it for you.

On the outside, look for cracked rivets, finish problems, etc.

Lastly, be sure to give your rifle a good cleaning before taking it to the range. Try several types of ammo, because some weapons don't like certain types of ammo (ie. hollow points). Don't waste your money on the super expensive stuff, but be sure that if you buy corrosive ammo to clean it appropriately ASAP (within an hour or two, not day or two).

Hope this helps, and happy shooting.

Hope this helps, and happy shooting.

It does help; thanks a lot! Lots of good advice here that I'll keep in mind.

You could buy a Norinco Mak90 that has all the compliance parts installed for way less than a grand. Then you'd have everything you have noted in your AK wants including the thicker receiver. Just a thought.

Find someone who is knowledgeable about AKs and take them to a decent gunshow and see what you can find.

Century makes some very good rifles but some are pure junk so it is always best to check them out before buying.

I have a Yugo underfolder I got for under $500 2 years ago and it is a solid, kick ass rifle. Really sweet.

Unfortunately for you, that was two years ago.

The GP 1975s look pretty good but again, I wouldn't buy one sight unseen. Not a chance.

Lancaster makes good rifles but some have had problems. If you go through Atlantic firearms they will take it back if you don't like it.

Look at his selection:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storecategory90.aspx

He's very helpful if you call.


Check these out:

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/

I've got one of the Russian Red Romanians and it is a nice rifle.

By the time you have one built these days you can buy one for less. Unless you build one yourself, of course.

You can also look over the marketplace here and see what is up for grabs. There is a Hungarian underfolder being sold there and it sounds sweet but is being sold by someone with a low post count (so you'd want to check them out) and is $1300. You can always dicker a little there.

I'm thinking about selling a Polytech Legend folder that is like new but I think it is pretty far out of your price range.

You might also look at theakforums.net and see what is up for grabs there.

Given current prices, I think that Hungarian folder sounds sweet. Think about it.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct656.aspx

Buy yourself one of these and don't look back. You won't regret it........

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn295/56type/NewPolytech.jpg

Pre-ban Polytech, all chinese parts so you don't have to worry about 922r BS. Assembled in factory that's been making AKs since 1956 for their country's army. About the closest you can get to the real thing, the chinese in a rush to beat the AWB sent over some that had the evil 3rd pin hole that had a rivet stuck in it, which ATF promptly classified as illegal MG and tried rounding them all back up but some are still floating around (still illegal though).

just get a saiga. they are new and inexpensive.

Buy yourself one of these and don't look back. You won't regret it........

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn295/56type/NewPolytech.jpg


The ultimate ubercool AK IMO.
I love those things. The only thing I don't like is the stock angle but I would love to have one. Just never had the cash the few times I had the opportunity.

Yeah, if you can get one of these right now, I'd jump on it depending on price. Like I said, right now the US made variants are so ridiculous in price you are not too bad off buying a preban.

Like this?

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135727085

That'll do quite nicely....Especially if you could pick it up for somewhere in the neighborhood of $1200-1400. With what you described as wanting in your post that is about your best option for a ready-to-go-right-out-of-the-box AK, Then you can add in the collectability factor it will accumulate over the years since no more are being imported, it will most likely retain it's value unless you totally abuse it. Also you won't have to worry about all the 922r crap since it came in before all that shit was even thought of.

They do look quite nice, but for 1200-1400 I could get a brand new Arsenal with a milled receiver, or I could get any of the best-known US Saiga clones for hundreds less. Is a 30-year-old Polytech worth that much when those are the other options?

Also, Atlantic has Yugo SKS's for under $400:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct625.aspx

Am I missing something, or is this a great deal?

The SKS is a fair rifle. Not an AK though.

the polytech is one very fine rifle. Very fine.
The "buy it now" price is not the actual price. You can make a bid. It pays to hold off until near the end of the auction but it won't sell if the reseve is not met.

The Hungarian is a fine rifle also.
That and the Polytech are two of the finest AKs ever built. IMO. I'd rather have either than an arsenal AK but there are plenty who think the Arsenals are the holy grail of AKs. I don't.

Buy what you want for the price you are willing to pay. Same as anything. In the world of AKs, it pays to check some of these out beforehand. I doubt you would have issues with the Hungarian or the Poly.

Best of luck to you in your purchase.

Buy a Saiga, convert the thing and call it a day. I'm in California and most of the uber cool AK's are banned by name so I can't get one. Saigas have fully heat treated receivers and i've run 1000's of rounds through mine and they're G.T.G.

Or you could look around for a chinese pre-ban in $850 -1K range. No 922r BS involved it's all chinese made and has a real nice trigger. Some of the Arsenal stuff has been known for poor finish quality (the paint comes off if you use anything other than CLP). If you want to get an AK for cheap you'll either have to do some inspection of the rifle in person or find a very motivated seller who needs $$ right away. In the end there is no free lunch, you'll have to put in the time and legwork to come up with a better quality cheaper model or hand over the cash for a higher end gun that you probably won't have any issues with.

Careful shopping might turn up a Norinco for under 1K whcih has a thicker reciever from the factory anyway.
+1 on this suggestion. I bought an unfired Norinco 56S for $800 OTD at a gunshop up in West Virginia. Deals are out there. You just have to look around. Of course going with a Chinese preban, you are getting an all factory original. In my opinion, these are some of the nicest AKs ever imported.

I've seen both the milled receiver Norinco MAK 90s as well as the "long barreled" ones at the Nashville gunshow for $700.00. Ironwood makes good replacement stocks and foregrips, and Tapco makes all the 922 camplient parts.
Atlantic Arms has 103 and Russian classics for $1,000.00, with a stamped receiver. If I can ever raise the money, I intend to add the classic to my collection just because. And it is the same price as it was a year ago.