LBV and bob gear...

I need info from everyone.

I see where folks put on lbv gear to carry mags and such.
My question is how do you carry a vest that has stuff you simply will not drop or cache and then throw on an lbv setup over top of it to carry mags,bayos and such and not expect it all to be a pain in the butt to get it to work together?

I have sorta played with it and I guess I hit a rock wall.
I am not bugging out I'm bugging in. I want to be able to put something in a setup and put it on to get me home with my wife at my side.

I understand that I MAY need to dump something in the process of lightening my load so I am looking at someonr to point me in the right direction.

I am not ex military and I haven't really seen this addressed.

Mmm I haven't given what you described much thought either. I have a near full set of MOLLE gear, with an older ALICE era LBV I use for mags, survival gear and such. I suppose if you wanted to carry stuff you would not be willing to drop, and stuff you will consider dropping, get a MOLLE vest, and put the droppable stuff in dump pouches.

I'm sure someone who has seen the elephant will have a more elegant solution.

I have something similar to this I putting together,I have about $10 in a new pistol belt and H suspenders I got at my ArmyNavy store,I used several surplus M14 mag pouches for all my various small items and you can carry quiet a bit of stuff in the butt pack. with all the various surplus items available you can make it up like you want. I have about $50 in my setup and it's all new surplus stuff for the most part.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/AttachET-1.jpg

Thanks,guys! That pic is pretty much what I am looking at as the Molle stuff is out of my budget.

What I am trying to wrap my head around is that that set up would be what stays on your body and you have something else over it that would be the expendable,lighten your load stuff.

Or is it the other way around where you have a vest/jacket with the essentials that stay on you and your LBV is the expendable?

I wouldn't want to have to eject any of of it but I can see the possibility of having to do so.

I was even thinking of adding a 5 mag pouch with a strap so that IF I had to eject the LBV that would leave me with the vest containing essential and the rifle with 5 mags +1 in the rifle.
That would give me 120-180 rounds to get us home and not be fighting zombies.
I want to evade and move undetected rather than duke it out.

I am leaning to the 2nd option as being more practical.

Not sure what all you want to carry,but with my setup I can carry,2 canteens of water,decent first aid kit,about 200 rds ammo for rifle,side arm and 50 rds extra ammo for it,enough food for 3 days, knife,just depends on how you rig it. If you need to drop something just release the alice clips or cut the belt loop straps that hold the dump pouches on.

If you need more space just forget the butt pack and go with a medium size alice pack with no frame you carry that over the top of the suspenders and pistol belt rig,just make sure you put stuff in the alice pack you don't mind having to loose if it comes to that.

Late ALICE era LBV is far superior to the old Vietnam era H-harness. LBV has loads of adjustability for larger guys, wide, padded shoulder straps, built in mag pouches, and lots of attachment points. I lived in this gear for a long time, and you can adapt it quickly to match the situation. (Front mag pouches: TP, baby wipes, power bars, on one side. Mini mag lite, and GI folding knife, both dummy-corded to the vest in the other front mag pouches, extra M9 mags on belt or in front trouser pockets.) I always wore the LBV over a flak vest, and could carry a small ALICE pack with frame over that. With the combined shoulder pads of the LBV, flak and ALICE pack I could carry staggering loads comfortably. I was not worried about being conspicuous.

If it's a Get Me Home situation you could toss all your essentials in a butt pack mounted in front of the LBV, and pull a big windbreaker over the whole deal. Rifles carry well in lacross bags, or bat bags. You'd look like an old fat coach walking home from school to anybody that you might run into. Not looking like GI Joe will also go a long way toward getting you a ride, and preventing unwanted attention.

HD

Great points! I will need to ponder on this awhile and make some time to play with what I have and what I can get ahold of.
Thanks! :D

Yah like tedbo sez, interesting. I managed to score some good deals on MOLLE gear, and have a full ruck with sleep system carrier, main ruck, two sustainment pouches, butt back, 3 pocket bandoleer (great for 20 round AK mags) as well as a nice assault pack with plastic stiffener. I've got a single pocket mag pouch, and a ALICE adapter on the assault pack which I use to fasten a canteen to.

I've got a late ALICE era LBV which I use keep stuff I need quickly in. First aid, some ammo, energy foods, another canteen, etc... I think I have three 1 quart canteens in ALICE covers, and a 2 quart somewhere.

I haven't figured out how to attach the assault pack to the patrol pack (IIRC that is possible, if so I'm missing something real simple) for a massive SHTF situation.

I use the assault pack as my daily pack, usually has my laptop, some water, and a few survival odds and ends, but I can also make it into a three day pack. I experimented with that when hunting. Fastened one canteen to the pack, another to my belt, plus foodstuffs, first aid, ammo, spare clothes, basic survival and first aid, etc... Was good practice running around with a three day pack, as well as rifle and sidearm.

I've also played with configuring the LBV as a 24-48 hour kit. That is where the buttpack comes in handy as I can stuff a poncho and poncho liner in it for overnighting.

For those who have been in the military, what is the least amount of water you would consider carrying with you, and the most you would carry? I try to keep two quarts at a minimum with me, plus another liter bottle stuffed somewhere in the pack.

Thanks again SV.
I think the reality is such that I would have to go 35-40 miles to go get my wife and get us home.

I might have a 2nd passenger who looks like a great asset and would like to get home as well to his wife and kid. He lives close by.

I should be able to have an LBV with plenty of water,first aid
kit,knife,poncho,spare set of clothes and plenty of ammo.
No need for fishing gear to get from there to here.

I have been wanting to overpack and I believe that holds true for most everyone initially.

If I can fit the LBV,the vest AND a pack of some sort that would allow me to pack home whatever she or the 2nd passenger needs to tote home.

They can't leave a bob at their desk.

Worst case would be having all 3 of us walking part way home if vehicle gets a flat tire,shot out,jacked,etc.
I have no intentions of having a firefight,just want to get us home safe so we can bug in.

I will have a sidearm or 4 and a rifle of some sort.
AR,AK,lever action .357 or an 870 with a bandolero or two.
Right now I want to see if it is feasible to have an LBV loaded out for an 870 and another LBV loaded for an AR and another loaded for an AK.
This is in the thinking stages as I am looking at the pros and cons of each set up.
My body is improving a lot since I got seriously injured about 3 yrs ago. I am working very diligently at getting better.
At this time weight is a consideration,mobility is not.
I just can't run as long and often as I used to,YET!
Sorry for the novel!

Tedbo,

With all this experimentation with LBV's, how about one for training? Take a light skeet vest and have a seamstress sew vertical tubes about the diameter of a dime all over it. Fill the tubes with sand for a light vest, or #9 shot for a heavy one, and wear the vest under a shirt all day at work.

Like wearing a helmet and flak vest 24/7, the results are about the same, without causing a panic at work. Take it off and you'll feel like you can fly!

Is it your weight, or the weight of your gear that's the concern? PM me if you need to lose a few pounds. I'm down 32 pounds since September, and have the energy I had at 18. (which I haven't been for 30 years)

HD

Hotdiggity, I am looking at the weight of the gear.
I have a couple of extra pounds on my belt but they will go away before hay season starts.

I am working on endurance as my strength is good.

Having a farm always keeps you busy.

I always wore the LBV over a flak vest, and could carry a small ALICE pack with frame over that. With the combined shoulder pads of the LBV, flak and ALICE pack I could carry staggering loads comfortably. I was not worried about being conspicuous.

HD


Well I've been given a tactical LBV vest, the one that is woodland camo and has the AR mag pockets.
I don't have the belt yet to see if I can wear the tac vest lbv AND the medium pack. Soon, I hope.

I hope that I can keep the pack from digging in or wearing the tac vest to pieces.

I am 5'8" but wide in the shoulders. If I can get this to work I will have something setup with an AR.

I am still looking for similar setups geared for around an FN, one geared for an AK and one geared for an 870.

I really don't like the AK chest vest. I find it too binding and think it would be hard to get out of in a hurry.

I like the tac vest lbv idea a lot. I need to find one that takes the AK mags.

I am thinking out loud right now and am looking for more of your input.
Thank you!

You can fit 20 round AK mags into AR mag pouches.

I am thinking out loud right now and am looking for more of your input.
Thank you!


Anyone else?

I just bought one of these Croatian Assault Vests fron Transworld Surplus and am very pleased with it.

http://www.transworldsurplus.co.uk/webbing_assault_vests.asp

It is adjustable to fit anybody and only cost $39 with shipping. It is brand new surplus too. The magazine pockets only hold one AK or AR mag each, but that's plenty of weight for me. One of the top pockets has loops inside for a half-dozen shotgun shells. The vest also has things that connect to your belt all the way around, with snaps on them. I think I will buy a GI belt to carry canteens and other gear on to add to it. I haven't tried wearing a daypack over the vest yet, because it may rub too much where the pack straps are. I would recommend this vest to anyone looking for an intermediate tactical vest for a cheap price.

I use plain jane nylon webgear, circa 1990s from US Army, Ted. REEEAAALLLLYYY cheap and very effective... Trying to get hands on the 4 mag pouch Com Bloc/Russian stuff cuz it's cheap too and it is tuff and works... Only thing keeping the cheap stuff from working is a lack of imagination and a desire to be stylish... Heck, I'm using leather mag pouches from English and Austrian army for FAL mags...



panzertruppe

Panzertruppe, I don't care about fashion as much as something that works well.
I want to stick to the kiss principle.

I tried the AR 20 rd mag pouches with the AK mags and it just seems to be to ohard to slip them out without a fight.
I am still searching for stuff that works.
Thanks!

Steel core, I will peruse that sight a little further.
Thanks!

What scenario do you envision having to walk 35-40 miles carrying a rifle but at the same time not wanting to draw attention to yourself? It's tough to be low profile with a rifle. You ought to be able to walk that distance in less than 24 hours, even if you stop when it gets dark.

You ought to reconsider the chest rig, especially the type 63 which holds 20 rd. AK mags (and FAL mags). A small amout of sewing and some shock cord will get it to take 30 rd. AR mags too. Ten more minutes of work will convert the straps to fastex which gets you out of it quickly if need be, and it is low profile enough to be worn UNDER a fleece/jacket/sweatshirt.

Kfranz, I am in the thinking stages at this point.As far as carrying a rifle
I think an AR carbine with a 4 position folding stock can get kind of small.
Or an AK pistol.
For starters I am looking at a plausible possibility of getting to my wife who works in town and getting home in one piece. If TSHTF I probably in reality won't be too concerned about size of rifle/shotgun,etc.I still want to stay "grey".
Times like this makes me wish I hadn't listened to my uncle and joined up anyway........

Spring ,Winter or Fall would be easiest to cover. Summer carry seems to be a b$#ch. I think I will need to get my creative juices really flowing.

Now, is there a place to get some shock cord on the cheap?
I'm also not familiar with fastex.

Thank you for your input!

Tedbo,
Since you are ‘bugging in,’ your best tactics may include only moving by foot at night, as in escape and evasion. This would include taking shortcuts over land rather than walking down the side of the road. In such a scenario, camo gear may be a good option. I don’t see using a conventional pack with the vest because the pack straps would rub too much. Maybe your pack could be over one shoulder, like this:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/WX159-1.html
If you had to cover most of the gear you are wearing from prying eyes, it’s hard to beat a trenchcoat or some other big raincoat. (but probably not a poncho, because they look too strange because they are not commonly used in public) Remember if you are moving by night and hiding during the day, you must also stay dry. I realize you want to get home ASAP, but it would be best to do it in one piece or you won’t be much help. Most people would want to carry everything, including the kitchen sink, but try to carry only what is essential to your mission and leave comfort items behind. You will need water and some granola bars, plus some basic gear. Whatever you get, test it out somewhere, like on a night hike, to see if it works for you. You should be able to bring your weapons into use quickly too.
These may not be valid ideas for you, but I’m just throwing around some ideas.

Good idea! I have given a little more thought to the possible scenario.Waiting until nightfall may or may not be a viable option.

If somrthing happens in the a.m. it will be more difficult to stay low.
If it happens more towards the afternoon I would get closer to her when heading towards town when everyone else wants to go out of town.

One, is that my vehicle hides my gear very well. If I got the call that I need to retrieve my wife from her work I will not worry so much about carrying my AR and lots and lots of boolits or my 36" 30-30 carbine.

Two, If I have to I will bring a small pack to carry plenty of full mags and pistols for my wife and her work friend who is a great asset and has had great training.

I am trying real hard to not get armchair commando-ish. I truly want to have a plan or 3 or 4 to ensure she/we get home in one piece without any aeration to our bodies.

I don't see it being from military or law enforcement as much as I think thugs,gangbanger wannabe's and opportunists. If it comes to that I think all bets are off.
A lot of this would depend on what available communications were working.
Land lines and cell phones,great! If not, I need get busy and have a pair of family channel walkie talkies. These may get jammed up with too much chatter,I truly don't know at this point.

Pleaes keep up the ideas! I am trying to get stuff that works without breaking the bank as the bank is moth-eaten as it is.

Kfranz, I am in the thinking stages at this point.As far as carrying a rifle
I think an AR carbine with a 4 position folding stock can get kind of small.
Or an AK pistol.
For starters I am looking at a plausible possibility of getting to my wife who works in town and getting home in one piece. If TSHTF I probably in reality won't be too concerned about size of rifle/shotgun,etc.I still want to stay "grey".
Times like this makes me wish I hadn't listened to my uncle and joined up anyway........

Spring ,Winter or Fall would be easiest to cover. Summer carry seems to be a b$#ch. I think I will need to get my creative juices really flowing.

Now, is there a place to get some shock cord on the cheap?
I'm also not familiar with fastex.

Thank you for your input!

Fastex is a generic name for your standard side release buckle. This is the variety I mentioned, because it can be added to the already sewn chicom type chest rigs

http://www.itwnexus.com/images/items/0016.jpg

Shock cord should be available cheap from your local fabric store. It's cheap online too, but you've got to add a few bucks for shipping.

I'm still unsure about the scenario you propose, and how you outfit is going to depend on the particular circumstances of your scenario. SHTF is such a wildly generic term, and despite the popularity of books suggesting such that are popular in firearms owner circles, I just don't see it happening other than locally, for short periods of time, and generally along a predictable timeline.

I can't think of any situation in my area that would deteriorate so fast as to require me to head out to get someone while at the same time needing to be armed well enough to fend off hoards of malcontents. Perhaps your area is more urban?

Since you seem to be undecided about what rifle to carry, I came up with a new idea. Rather than carry an AR or AK pistol with lots of heavy mags, how about a minimal platform? This would be a Ruger 10/22 with a folding Butler Creek stock and paracord for a sling. Instead of AK mags, use 25 round Steel Lips mags. You could also carry a box or pouch of extra ammo. I know a .22 doesn’t have the stopping power of a larger rifle, but this would be less than half the weight, very concealable, and would not draw as much attention to you. The report would be much less noticeable if you had to use it. If I were a bad guy wanting to take you out to get my hands on your weapon, I would let you go if you only carried a .22 carbine and had lots of ammo to shoot back at me. It would also be easy to control if you shot it from the driver’s seat of your vehicle, and you wouldn’t lose your sense of hearing in the process.
The idea of carrying an 8 pound AK and twenty pounds of magazines for twenty miles may appeal to some, but I’d rather move fast and unencumbered. Besides you still have your pistol. The vest could carry the Steel Lips mags and other gear, like pistol mags.
I like hotdiggity’s idea of using a bat bag to carry gear, but how about just carrying a good old Louisville Slugger in your hand, while your rifle and pistol are hidden under your coat? Like Buford T. in Walking Tall. I’d probably stay away from you, at least out of swinging distance. I would be less inclined to take you down to get your bat, like I would to take your AK,AR or .30/.30 lever action.

I'm still unsure about the scenario you propose, and how you outfit is going to depend on the particular circumstances of your scenario. SHTF is such a wildly generic term, and despite the popularity of books suggesting such that are popular in firearms owner circles, I just don't see it happening other than locally, for short periods of time, and generally along a predictable timeline.

I can't think of any situation in my area that would deteriorate so fast as to require me to head out to get someone while at the same time needing to be armed well enough to fend off hoards of malcontents. Perhaps your area is more urban?


I'm still unsure,too!!
Not ever being in a situation of possibly going and getting your wife and a friend from a situation like this all I can do is speculate. I do a lot of "what ifs".
Steelcore has a good,practical idea also.
I would have to trade/barter for a butler creek folding stock. 80 bucks is a lot to cough up right now.
Great ideas! I am trying hard to not over think this,but like I said before,not having this type of situation to go by it makes me ponder.
Thanks! i am always open for ideas.
I hope to MAKE some time this weekend to really flesh it out more.

When I go out into the woods , I wear a chi-com chest rig , I have several to choose from , I have a camo nylon one from centerfire ,and the old cotton ones , tan and o.d. all updated with fastex clips on the back straps ( dept. and grocery stores give them away in the parking lot , thier just still attached to the grocery carts ) I litterally stuff them with energy bars ,tasco monocular,bandages, 50ft paracord ,AK oil bottle with break free clp in it,magnesium fire starting thing with p-38 can opener on the chain , tightly folded cotton rag about 18"x18" anti- biotic ointment , cleaning kit if not in the Kalashnikov, Surefire g-2 nitrolon flashlite with extra lithium batterys , cold steel voyager knife, matches, and of course three circle 10 waffle mags full of 7.62x39 .. on my body I carry Glock 19 gen 2 model with cor-bons in a glock brand holster and extra g-17 mag in glock brand mag carrier on a 1 3/4 nylon G.I. belt pants type, not utility belt , another cold steel knife , a G.I. 2 qt. canteen on a shoulder strap and sometimes if I think I need more ammo , a old G,I. butt pack on a shoulder strap with more mags. The rifle at this time is my new SGL-20 arsenal saiga ( absolutly in LOVE with this one ). I am going to get a russian M-23 chest pouch for more room ( everything these days I want Russian/Soviet stuff ) ,they hold 8 mags .I doubt I will carry that many , but I like to be able too. I want a Izhmash bayonet and other accessories of proper manufacture to go with my SGL-20 (AK-103without folding stock ) ..The SHFT scenario would most likely be best defended from the house ( Im out in the country) only going out to stop Intruders out in the fields/woods. or working outside , (cut wood , get food ) . As of now I patrol my property on foot or by vehicle daily . There is also a house in town so I may have to get from there quickly, My truck is always prepared supplies and weapons , so I am ready , let the festivities begin !

look at some of these links for pouches, belts, suspenders etc...
http://www.charleyssurplus.com/
http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/
http://www.omahas.com/index.php?cPath=
http://www.vtarmynavy.com/
http://www.brigadeqm.com/
http://camocorp.co.za/catalog/default.php
http://www.equipped.com/
http://www.gijen.com/index.htm
http://www.israelmilitary.com/
http://www.go-armynavy.com/


That should be enough to get you started, but it's only a small portion of the links I have, and mostly just the low budget to get started stuff.
Still decent quality, but not so exspensive your wife will beat you with a frying pan!

Too simple to be tactical, baby!

[IMG]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/Coach_Hamman/100_0066.jpg

Where are you located (Urban vs Rural)?
You say you may have to hump as much as 40 miles round trip to retrieve your wife; I’d do the same thing but remember that is a LONG walk in a full ruck. That is also a LONG time for her to have to bunker up in a place you want to get her out of with no way of knowing how/when/if you are going to get there… If your goal is to bug in, could you equip your wife with a get home kit and set a rally point or two?
Your best bet, to get through unban/ suburban areas unnoticed, is to blend in.
Get in the habit of wearing good walking boots ever day.
Wear a hat, a nice fedora will go unnoticed in most environments but a ball cap will do as well. Your face will disappear under a hat.
A civilian pack like a school book bag or a shoulder bag for a laptop will hold most if not all you will need to get home or to safety and you won’t get the “LOOK AT RAMBO!” stare as you walk down a crowded street.
If you are going to carry a weapon, carry a pistol, make it a reliable semi auto with 3-4 spare mags. If you train a lot with a wheel gun and ca reload while on the move (running) that will work. IF you have to pull a trigger, the two last things you want to do is stay there followed closely by be anywhere with less than a full load in your weapon.
All a long arm will do is slow you down and draw unwanted attention.

I live in a small city (Tallahassee Fl) pop aprox 200,000 +/- the student population. I work about 5 miles from home, wife = same our son’s school makes the trip home about 8 miles.
We have a get home in each vehicle:
Backpack with:
1L water
4 power bars
LED flashlight
Multitool (I also have a short fixed blade knife)
Prepaid cellphone
ID and ICE info
A full set of keys
Some cash
A boonie hat
Ibuprophin

We have a plan to go with this set up.
Wife goes straight home secures the house and dog
I get the Boy and met her at home.
Check in call every 20 min or when something needs to be noted
to include:
“I’m home.”
“Vehicle down at X location, I’m on foot traveling Y direction.”
“Accident at X intersection, go to your alt route.”
We both know the planed route we will take as well as alt route 1 for vehicle and alt route 2 for foot.

Our plan is a little more in-depth with some more contingencies built in but I’m rambling…


Ceddie

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Don't know where to start, but here goes. The old H harnesses are crap. LBV's are much better. Instead of carrying so many canteens, get a camelback or similar hydration system that will slide in an assualt pack. That and two 1 quart canteens on your lbv should be enough. Medical kit, ammo (180 rounds), compass, light and KBar is what I keep on mine. Remember, you can carry roughly 2x the amount of 5.56 as 7.62. I wouldn't go without an AR if I was expecting trouble. A sidearm is a backup in your scenerio. A .22 with a parachute cord sling is laughable. 40 miles with that on your shoulder might amputate it :-) Typically a flak jacket is worn with an lbv over that. I would carry an assualt pack (about the size of my kids bookbag) over the lbv with an mre, extra socks, moleskin, 6 more clips, ponco liner. Just carry the essentials. If you were to need to drop. weight, you lose the assault pack. It has quick release straps. Your lbv should stay on you. You need it to survive. Ideally, you retrieve your assualt pack before you high tail it. Boots are vital. Make sure they are "broke in" before hand. Average is 3-4 mph on foot in "normal" terrain with no contact. Remember, if you need it,a medical kit can save your life. Don't go with the cheapest. One hand tourniquets and clotting agents are better to have and not need then need and not have. Finally, when planning for this scenario light and mobile is best. Your wife may be required to carry the load if anything happens to you. Make sure she is well versed on using all the gear....Hope that made sense and helped.

Coach,Ceddie and USMC1stsgt, thanks for the input. I haven't messed with my gear in a while as I have had too many distractions.

I have a chinese chest rig and am considering adapting it with fastex buckles. I just don't like the mags and stuff directly on my chest as it feels too confining.

Right now I'm a thinkin' and nuttin's happenin'!

I have a setup for each caliber rifle I have. Here are some ideas for you on the AK. For the lightest possible setup you can go with the chinese 3 mag chest pouch and assault pack or ALICE pack if you want to. The chinese chest rig doesn't need to be easy to get out of IT SHOULD STAY ON YOU as it carries your mags and other vital gear. Drop the pack. You can carry a 2quart GI canteen on a shoulder strap with this setup easily.

Here's the medium setup. Upgrade to the 6 mag chinese pouch (you'll already be trained in it's operation fromthe 3 mag version, all your doing is doubling mag carrying capacity. Again go with the ALICE pack with the quick release buckles maybe add a 1quart canteen or two to the outside pockets or extra mags.

Now for the balls to the wall I'm not going down without one hell of a fight setup, also known as heavy. You need regular GI pistol LBE belt preferably the old school type with the metal buckle, 2 E. German AK 4 mag pouches, 2 1 quart canteens, buttpack, ALICE suspenders, and the aforementioned ALICE pack. This setup will more than likely deter all but the most determined zombie. You will need to take the pistol belt apart to fit the mag pouches but they will go on there. Properly selected loadout for this setup could keep you in the field for awhile. YMMV