Stripping the Mosin-Nagant Stock

I've damaged a few Mosin-Nagant stocks in my day trying to beautify them, and I've even ruined one or two. Since reading posts here I've realized that others appear to be no smarter than me, and may be making the same mistakes I did.

Put away the polyurethane. It may look good on a gunstock, but it can't handle heat, and it'll melt in splotches when you shoot more than 50 rounds in a sitting. No the old finishes are the best ones. I prefer tung oil or Tru-Oil. They may run under heat, but the oil sets right back up when it cools, and once it suffuses into wood-grain it's pretty hard to get out. It does have the disadvantage (To me it's an advantage.) of taking a lot longer to apply. Tru-oil takes about five days of repetitive coats, while tung oil takes about 30 days (and 30 coats) to really get a mirror shine. Oils also make stock marks stand out a lot more than any other finishing product.

You don't need sandpaper either. The best product for removing shellac is denatured alcohol. You just soak a rag then rub the stock for a few minutes, and you'll be down to the bare wood. Stripping the stock takes about two hours of rubbing - one hour if you change rags a couple times. Alcohol also preserves the marks on the stock, and cleans it thoroughly as well.

I think if you follow the above advice you'll have a darned good-looking rifle at the end.

The finish on my last Mosin was flaking off so badly, I took a dull knife and started scraping the finish off. Working pretty good so far. Once I get around to finishing that, I'll get a cabinet maker friend of mine to refinish it.

Last summer I took my mosin apart and lightly sanded the internal part of the stock and then added a few coats of Finnishing Wax to preserve the wood and to keep out moisture.

I'll have to try the alcohol. I've always sanded all the shellac off in the past, and wow! talk about wasting sand paper. The last stock I stripped I used Zip Strip, worked ok but made a god awful mess!

How long would you wait between each coat of tung oil?

I'm on coat #10 right now, and I'm giving it two days between coats. If the tung oil doesn't completely dry, before you apply the next coat, then the top coat will become pebbly. The problem can be easily fixed by smoothing out the surface with 00000 steel wool, then rubbing in the next coat to bring back the reflective surface.

The current coat I'm on mostly is covering the wood, but there are still patches where the wood surface shows through the oil.

You should know that Tru-Oil is a LOT easier to work with, producing the desired surface in 5 to 8 coats, and though the two finishes are somewhat comparable in that they both produce glossy finishes, tung oil appeals to most people more.

Well, I started doing my M38 today, got it stripped pretty good and put on a first coat of tung oil. I used denatured alcohol on a scotch brite, aswell as rags. It worked well. It doesn't have a laminated stock, so I'm not aiming for perfection. After the first coat, I can tell it's going to look better.

Seriously, 2 days! Ahhhh, it says 24 hours on the can, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. This is going to take forever!!!!

Is Tung oil readily available at Home Depot, Lowes, and the likes?

I just bought a can of it at ACE Hardware. I'm sure they would have it at Lowes and Home Depot.

That's where I got mine. Just be sure it says, "100% Tung Oil" or "Pure Tung Oil". Most product lines include wax with some tung oil in it. This is not what we use.

Yes, it does take a long time. I really enjoy the process, myself. Every night I go out and examine the finish, and if it's dry, I handle it, and I steel-wool it then lovingly rub in another coat of oil, smoothing it as I go, so no lumps form. Heck I enjoy it so much that I sometimes get stocks just to refinish.

Remember that Tru-Oil really does look good too, and it's a lot easier to work with if you're not into the long process. It's cheap too, but it doesn't store well in the bottle after it's been opened.

How do you smooth it? Just rub it with a clean dry rag?

*edit* I hope Minwax Tung oil is good, because that's what I'm using. And steel-wooling it, should I seriously do it between every coat? Does it just help with the oil penetrating the wood? I'm a real novice at this, I was thinking steel-wool would make it look scratchy.

My-Rifle:

What would a tung oil finish look like on a yugo m-59?

I have no idea what species of wood the yugos used on the m-59s?

I believe the Yugos are done up in teak. It has a much rougher grain than the birch hardwood of the Russian Mosin Nagants, and it takes more coats to smooth out into that glassy glossy finish.

For those of you who haven't put your first coat on I forgot to tell you one trick. While it's not necessary, it does help the tung oil penetrate if on your first coat you cut the tung oil with some turpentine to make it thinner. This will help seal the wood, and allow future coats to lay on top of the wood instead of soaking in. THIS STEP IS NOT NECESSARY, BUT IT HELPS.

Between coats I sand down the stock with 00000 steel wool. Before every coat. I do it enough that the finish is completely smooth to the touch - like glass. If it doesn't need it I don't do it, but it always does need it somewhere. Don't worry about the finish being dull. The only coat that has to be un-sanded is the last one.

If this is what you mean by smoothing, then I use steel wool. On the other hand, I use a rag to rub on each coat, and I do for about ten minutes for each application.

The stock usually looks pretty dull for the first ten to fifteen coats, then it really starts to look good, so don't get discouraged - and don't get impatient and apply the coats too thick or the finish will end up being dull and pimply.

my-rifle,

Could you put some pictures of some of the stocks you've refinished on here?
I'd like to see them.

One of them is in the works right now. It looks like this so far.

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/ammo%20stash%202009-02-07%201024x768.jpg

though this one is only five or six coats along. I've added another five coats since it was photographed, and it's a lot darker. Obviously it still has a long way to go. My camera battery is recharging right now after a lot of photography, and when it's done I'll take photos of two hardwood stocks I did last year.

Nice!

I actually saw this picture in another thread on here.

There is no reason to do much to the inside of the wood work right? Just leave the wax stuff on there?

OK here's the batch of photos:

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/oiled%20gunstocks/lamy%209130%20foregrip.jpg

Of the photos below the reddish stock is the tung oil while the brown stock is the Tru-oil

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/oiled%20gunstocks/mosin%20nagant%20forestock%20oiled.jpg

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/oiled%20gunstocks/mosin%20nagants%20oiled.jpg

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/oiled%20gunstocks/mosin%20nagants%20oiled%20back%20to%20back.jpg

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/oiled%20gunstocks/mosin%20nagant%20oiled%20gunstocks%2002.jpg

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/oiled%20gunstocks/mosin%20nagant%20tru-oiled%20buttstock.jpg

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/oiled%20gunstocks/mosin%20nagant%20tung%20oil%20from%20butt.jpg

http://www2.regmar.com:81/Pics/my-rifle/external%20links/oiled%20gunstocks/mosin%20nagant%20tung%20oiled%20buttstock.jpg

As you can see they both look good, but they produce different shades on the stock. Being partial to tung oil I used it on the prettiest stock.

Wow! Those look very very nice. Especially with the laminated stocks.

Hope my M38 will look something like those.

Beautiful finish on those old gal's my-rifle! And holly crap! I thought I had some ammo, After seeing your stash I'm embarrassed to go look at mine!:sad_small

Beautiful work.

Beautiful finish on those old gal's my-rifle! And holly crap! I thought I had some ammo, After seeing your stash I'm embarrassed to go look at mine!:sad_small

Before I did these two rifles I had never attempted using oil to refinish rifle stocks. It was remarkably easy to do as long as I didn't get impatient.

By the way, you oughta see what's on the other side of the room :)

Those look REALLY nice, My-Rifle!

So, the Tung oil 91/30 is the Rifle WITH the metal sling ferrules?

The Tru oil is the one WITHOUT the ferrules?

Found this from an SKS history site.

Wonder how one would look in tung oil?

The Model 59 was first manufactured in 1960 at the Red Star Arsenal and a year later mass production of the M59 or Polavtomatska puska M59-(PAP M 1959) began. The M59 has a few differences from the Russian, location of the serial number on the bolt carrier left side, difference in the radius on the front of the gas tube, stock is Bukovina [Beechwood] that has been rift sawn giving a different wood grain apperance from the usual and there are parts numbers on all of the parts. The receiver and barrel assembly will drop into a Russian stock without any modification and appear to be exact copies. [ Production lasted until 1967 with 226,560 being produced.] [ to Michael Kreca, from a Military Historian in Belgrade]

Those look REALLY nice, My-Rifle!

So, the Tung oil 91/30 is the Rifle WITH the metal sling ferrules?

The Tru oil is the one WITHOUT the ferrules?

Yes that's it exactly.

my-rifle, how many coats of Tru-oil did you use on that one?

I used 6 coats of Tru-Oil. Tru-oil really is a lot easier, but it hides some of the details that tung oil brings out. On the other hand it looks pretty good, and it's inexpensive.

On the back of the can it says to wait 5-10 minutes after applying, then buff with a clean lint-free rag. What do you think of that? If I try it, the rag just seems to stick. I don't see the point in it as long as there isn't an overabundance of oil on it.

OK, Shizzlore. Bad news. Minwax Tung Oil Finish doesn't actually contain tung oil. It's a mixture of linseed oil and varnish. That's why it dries so fast. When you said it directed you to buff after five to ten minutes I knew something was up, so I Googled "Minwax Tung Oil Finish". Here's what I found on a furniture refinishing site.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27840

I suppose that's why everyone seems so hell-bent on insisting that we use 100% tung oil and nothing else. At this point I don't suppose you can go back, and the Minwax finish may turn out good. I can't attest to it, having never tried it. If you want to start over, varnish and linseed oil should come off if you know how to do it, but that too will require some research.

Yeah, I actually looked it up aswell, and was disheartened when I found that information. But I have four coats on it right now, and I think its looking great, and aslong as it's tough and doesn't peel off or anything, I'm fine with it. I have been waiting 40+ hours between coats. So it works alright, the "buffing" thing is funky to me, I just wipe it down good and make sure there isn't an excess of oil and it looks good the next day.

My brother in-law just highly recommended Waterlox tung oil to me. I know he is very experienced also. He worked at the same company my Dad worked for for 25 years, and his co-worker would use Waterlox tung oil on furniture that belonged to billionaires. Yet, in that forum that you gave me a link to, they said Waterlox isn't exactly "pure" tung-oil. My point is, I'm sure these products like Minwax have to be atleast alright, even if they aren't tung-oil. I figured as this was my first time, I would end up getting something wrong anyway!

Don't you just love $69 rifles? You can experiment and learn on them, and afterward you can produce really beautiful stuff. I'm using what I learned on gun stocks to make a platform to fit in an antique bed frame to allow it to hold a modern mattress. The wood is oak, but it loooooves tung oil, and the result looks really professional.

Hey My-rifle, How about an antique bed with a hidden drawer on the side panel that would hold several Mosin's? Now that would be sweet!

Hey! That gives me an idea.

[rubs hands gleefully]

How do think my wife would react to that, eh? She liked the platform I did for our daughter's bed so much she's asked me to make one for our bed. Now I really don't think she'd let me get away with hiding firearms in our daughter's bed, but our bed? That may be a different story.

my rifle......I fart in your general direction.....blast man....couldn't you have just left us wannabee refinishers alone.....now I've got about 7 or 8 mosin's to strip of their poly and start all over.
Got to hand it to you those are the finest looking ones I've ever seen. beautiful job man beautiful. Now I'm thinking the new flintlock build I have in fancy maple (that is still in the white) might look a lot nicer in tung oil. thanks for the advice.
Jim

my rifle......I fart in your general direction.....blast man....couldn't you have just left us wannabee refinishers alone.....now I've got about 7 or 8 mosin's to strip of their poly and start all over.
Got to hand it to you those are the finest looking ones I've ever seen. beautiful job man beautiful. Now I'm thinking the new flintlock build I have in fancy maple (that is still in the white) might look a lot nicer in tung oil. thanks for the advice.
Jim

ROTFL

I think you'll agree that it takes no more skill to apply a tung oil finish then it does to apply a polyurethane finish. It just takes more time.

I started using 400 grit sandpaper as needed, I couldn't find anything finer. It works pretty good. I also got one of those nifty little mircofiber tack cloths, I wipe it off with that obviously. You know what the most annoying thing is though? Finding little hairs dried into the finish! I swear they weren't there the day I put that coat on!

Well here is a few pictures of it with the special linseed-varnish "tung oil" after I put on the 6th coat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Sadgeon/DSCN1120.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Sadgeon/DSCN1123.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Sadgeon/DSCN1124.jpg

stunning guys just stunning,,,,,some of us older gents can appreciate things that take more then three minutes..... have you sanded out to 1600 before with the raise the grain with water between sanding before you start technique? can't wait to try you style myrifle,,,,shizzzy she's looking fine. most Ace harwares have grits from 220 through 1600 if you ask.

Thanks Jim. Back in my 30's I had a down period when I had no income for about 6 months. I had to sell most of my possessions to eat and make rent, and in doing so I realized how little what I owned was worth. I began to understand that it wasn't the volume of stuff you own that matters, but it's the quality of it that matters.

Since then I grew to appreciate fine things - furniture, art, firearms. These days not everything I own is high quality, but a higher percentage is. I've come to appreciate that more is sometimes less, and spending time with something in a way makes it more - yours.

wize words mon ami,,,,,I learned that lesson a beautiful early 60's model 94 winchester......still kills me to think I gave it away for a song. Hell in my 30's I didn't have a pot to piss in even if I did tung oil it. Now art......afriad my tastes are way too 19 century impressionistic to ever afford even looking.....

I think I my be done after I put on one more coat which would make it 8 coats, and maybe I'll put more on as needed. I don't think this Minwax stuff needs as many coats as real tung oil.

Check this out though, since I was refinishing the stock for my M38, I decided to experiment a little and see if I could make a stock for it. I just used some old pine scraps my Dad brought home from a job. I am fully aware of how ugly it is, and I never fired it like this, since I didn't feel it would be too safe, or good for the rifle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Sadgeon/DSCN1139.jpg

I knew I could use that stock for something, perhaps a rubberband gun... But that would be too unoriginal. So this a clip of what I did with it. It's quite silly.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Sadgeon/?action=view&current=DSCN1162.flv

I like the idea of making your own stock, and I like the look of the stock you made in the first photo. The second clip though is incomprehensible to me. All I see are 11 frames, and in none of them do I see the entire stock and attachments. Maybe it's my internet connection, I don't know.

Try watching it now, I put in a new link in place of the old one. That is what I made out of the stock I made for the M38.

By the way, I had a dream last night that me and a bunch of friends were fighting Nazis and we all had Mosin Nagants, probably 91/30's. It was an awesome dream!

Been watching "Defiance" and "Enemy at the Gates" again? The last time I watched both of those in one night I had dreams for days.

Shellac is a great finish for the Mosin Nagant. It is also original to the Russian firearms from the Mosin Nagant to the present day AK variants..., as it is in Romania, China and other countries. It can create a highly variable color choice, easily stripped and repaired and maintains the value of the fireram it is applied to. While not as durable as some oil or modern finiashes in the long run it is the most economical and preservative of value.

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3895/pb300915lz5.jpg

Horrible, horrible, horrible.......I finished my M38, put it back together a couple days ago, and was out shooting it today. Afterwards, while it was leaning on my bed, next to some other guns, My double-barrel starts leaning, hits my Tantal, whichs falls and hits the M38 stock.....AHHHHHH! All because I was cleaning up after my brother and putting something away in my room because he wouldn't do it, I had to move my matress a little to put a box away which caused it all.....It sucks. The double barreled 12 ga. also hit my dresser which my sister refinished a long time ago...... Just goes to show, crap happens.

I feel your pain. I'm pretty sure that every time I lean a rifle against a bare surface (not a corner), it falls over and damages the rifle. I still get stoopid and do it sometimes, but I try to remember not to.

try being the good guy and loaning a nice hand refinished nagant to a noobie for hunting, only to walk up on them at lunch time just in time to watch your rifle that was leaning against a granite bolder (arghhhhh bad enough) tip over and crash into loose rock....I can still feel the pain...... the following year I talked the noob into going rifle shopping where I helped him pick out his very own deer gun...

I've heard good stuff about the Advanced Technology synthetic stock for the Mosin. It would be nice having one just so you wouldn't have to worry so much about what surfaces it touches.

Hey guys. I started working with these materials on my MNs this weekend and discovered the best way to apply these Tung Oil and mixes is powderless gloves.

You put the oil on the glove and then rub it on the stock. It leaves no lint, there is no cloth to soak up the product, and you can smooth the surface very easily. Once done, you pull off the glove and there is no mess.

I got them at Walgreens for $5.99 for 40. Just google for "SafeSkin Powder-Free Purple Nitrile Exam Gloves, Universal Size"

Good advice there, M1taylo. I'll try it next time I redo a stock. In the past I tear up tee-shirts, and use the fragments for applicators. Your idea sounds like it might save me some time in cleanup if nothing else.

I've damaged a few Mosin-Nagant stocks in my day trying to beautify them, and I've even ruined one or two. Since reading posts here I've realized that others appear to be no smarter than me, and may be making the same mistakes I did.

Put away the polyurethane. It may look good on a gunstock, but it can't handle heat, and it'll melt in splotches when you shoot more than 50 rounds in a sitting. No the old finishes are the best ones. I prefer tung oil or Tru-Oil. They may run under heat, but the oil sets right back up when it cools, and once it suffuses into wood-grain it's pretty hard to get out. It does have the disadvantage (To me it's an advantage.) of taking a lot longer to apply. Tru-oil takes about five days of repetitive coats, while tung oil takes about 30 days (and 30 coats) to really get a mirror shine. Oils also make stock marks stand out a lot more than any other finishing product.
.



I've been reading this thread for a while and just got my account approved, if you don't mind I'd like to make a few helpful suggestions that will save you many hours of frustration.

First of all if you are using pure Tung oil you are not allowing NEARLY enough time for each coat to dry. Even polymerized Tung oil needs a week to really get hard. I beleive what you were seeing with the finish running under heat wasn't a hardened finish melting it was a unhardened finish running. If you want pure tung oil to dry in a reasonable amount of time you have to add japan dryer or other drying compound for it to work. I've seen unmodified Tung oil still not completely hardened several months after application!

I agree that Tung oil finishes are superb on rifles though I don't like high gloss finishes on hunting rifles. You can control the amount of gloss by how you rubout the final coats.

I suggest you read a book by Jack Mitchel on "RifleSmithing", it's a green soft cover book you can often find at Barnes and Noble etc.. It shows the Tung Oil finishing technique used by a famous custom rifle builder. Basically you wet sand in the first couple of coats of Tung Oil to fill the grain with a full weeks drying time inbetween coats (and thats using a mixed tung oil not pure, pure would likely take months). By sanding in the first couple coats to fill the grain and giving proper drying time you can acheive an excellent finish in 5 to 7 coats depending on the porosity of the wood.

I prefer using a penetrating epoxy sealer to truly moisture seal the wood followed by a couple coats of Tung oil finish. The pentrating epoxy sealer vapor seals the wood far better than any oil finish and you can apply your oil finish on top of it.

If you can forgive me for posting a couple pictures not of Moisins I'll show you what I mean about the finishes. This rifle only has 6 or 7 coats of Tung Oil finish without the epoxy sealer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/djpaintles/M-707mag3.jpg

This stock is from porous Claro Walnut and only a half dozen or so coats was plenty enough to completely fill the pores and leave a moderately glossy finish. It would be simple to rub it up to a mirror finish if I wanted to.

This stock only has 4 to 5 coats of Tung Oil finish on top of a penetrating epoxy sealer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/djpaintles/Project593x62017.jpg

The sealer helped and also being English Walnut it has far smaller pores than Claro.

The point is that you can fill the pores in far less time if you will sand in the first couple coates, allow proper drying time, and if using pure tung oil make sure it has a dryer in it.



Also, please forgive me being a little blunt but sanding wood past 600grit or so is a complete waste of time. The 2 stocks above were whiskered and sanded to 400 grit before sanding in the Tung oil with 600 grit. Wood's structure isn't really firm enough to make finer sanding do any real good. Save the finer sandpaper for the finishing stages.


So hopefully I haven't been too rude for my first post here (I've posted on other Gunsmithing forums for years), but I think a couple of these suggestions might save you a tremendous amount of effort and help your results come out even better!......................................................DJ

Not at all. We're all here to learn. The only reason I started this thread was because it seemed that I had some experiences that others could use. Your knowledge and experience is most welcome. Tell me this, though: After you apply a coat of tung oil, do you let it sit a week or so before sanding to knock down the pimples or do you do that step immediately?

I sand to 400 grit whiskering with the last 2 or 3 grades and then the first coat of finish is the penetrating epoxy sealer.

The first coat of tung oil finish (I use a modified Tung Oil) is sanded in using 500 or 600 grit wet dry sandpaper. You allow a "Mud Coat" to build up. The very fine sandings with the 600 grit will mix with the Tung oil and fill the pores of the wood perfectly matching the color of the wood. You allow this bumpy muddy coat dry for at least a week. And then do the second coat with either 600 again or move up to 1000 grit sanding back to the surface of the wood but again allowing the finish and tung oil to mix and fill the pores.

Usually 2 mud coats drying for a week is enough to thoroughly fill the pores unless you have super-porous wood. The epoxy sealer coat speeds it up even more. It doesn't work if you don't allow at least a week for the finish to thoroughly harden.

It still takes a month or so to finish a stock but you only have to put in an hour a week or so on each stock. It also allows you to have a finish IN the wood as compared to ON the wood. Having the finish IN the wood is probably why you like the look of the Oil finishes in the first place. You can have a matt finish or rub it up to a mirror finish if you so desire. I also like this type of finish because it's easy to fix scratches. Usually a light wet sanding with 1000 grit will clean up most handling and "hunting" scratches a rifle picks up.

Oh, and thanks for the advice on using Alcohol for stripping the Laquer finish. Knowing it's laquer is going to make my prep much easier when I get going on my Moisin's........................................................DJ

My M44 will look well following this thread!

btt

I stripped my 91/30 using Brakefree powder solvent. It took the shelac right off (just wiped it off with a shop towel), then I was able to quickly and easily sand it down without gumming up the sandpaper with the shelac. I'm on my 5th coat of Formby's Tung Oil Finish (yes I checked, it states its tongue-oil blended with similar penetrating oils), and its already turning a beautiful golden brown.

I'll post pics once done.

Nothing beats Shellac on MNs, after all that is the original finish. If applied properly it won't flake off. I have come to hate Tru-oil for finishing stocks. I now only use Tung Oil, BLO or shellac as appropriate to the arm.