TOKAREV QUESTIONS

Looked at a 9mm tokarev norinco 213 at a local gun store at a good price,but want one in 7.62x25.

What would be required to fit a 7.62 barrel to the 9mm.I know I'll need a link and pin,anything else?What area on the 7.62 barrel do I polish if it doesnt fit the 9mm model 213?

Any pic's,forum how to's or info would be MUCH appreciated!

Thanks

Don't know about replacing barrels but has been some of these floating around for around $210.Picked my up over the summer,very nice and clean.Shot very little,td

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/tdbrown1969/tt33c7.jpg


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/tdbrown1969/tt33c4.jpg

:uhoh_smal This is a really very bad and poss. dangerous idea to change a 9mm to a 7.62!
Some people take a 7.62 and change and use both cal. which is easier, since a
Tok. made originally for 9mm does have a shorter opening in slide and would not handle extracting a 7.62 reliably, also a tok made in 9mm does have its mags blocked due to the shorter 9mm cartridge!
If a 7.62 is changed with a 9mm barrel and 9mm mag, there is about a 50% chance it will not function reliably, without filing the extractor as well! And if extractor is filed then it might not work reliably in 7.62! :(

Ive heard of it being done with no problem

As far as the mag well being shortened,it is.But all you have to do is pull one pin and the thing slide's right out.Will be comparing 7.62 to 9mm tok's to check on the ejection port to see if they are shorter as Ive never heard of this,and also compare extractor's.Or maybe someone who has both can compare tonight


Thanks guys

Forgot to say,some have mags modded for 9mm,some have a plate in magwell,but both are easily changable.This one has the plate,but all you have to do is remove on pin and done.

Also,you can get slide's for fairly cheap if the port is smaller.

Im almost 100% sure this doable,just dont know anyone who has to find out what exact parts I need when I order on monday...so it will hopefully be ready on for the weekend.

Barrel is 35,pin and link is 10,and slide if needed will be 45..still cheaper then buying another in 7.62.Just need to find out about the extractor now.

I dont like 9mm,but it would be nice in a shtf scenario being its the cheapest and most common caliber, if your wondering why I dont just buy one in 7.62

Its bnib,and only missin the oil bottle.

You really hurt my intelligece, i hear of changing either a tok. or CZ-52 from a 7.62 to 9mm by swapping barrels etc, but never the other way! I have 5 toks, 2 in 9mm. also have 4 cz-52s in 7.62 as well as a 9mm barrel and mags! Which can work but 50% of time problematic!
I just now measured slides on both cal. toks and the 7.62s eject. port is rght at 1/4 longer, the extr. is right at 1/8 longer than the 9mm, so draw your own conclusions.
I also saw the nut who on U-tube was shooting a 9mm in a Mak. instead of a 9x18! :uhoh_smal

Shit,sounds like its going to be a pain in the ass....But I want this thing as its bnib and really cheap.Only missin the oil bottle

So,If ive got everything right.I need a barrel,slide,extractor,barrel pin and link?I will get this done,lol.

Didnt mean to insult your intelligence if thats what you meant.

Thanks for measuring them for me.Would you be willing to see exactly where the size in the ejector port is larger

I dont have my micro-meter measuring device handy, but they listed in manual service life of a chin. Tok. is 2000. rounds avg.
I have a t-54 which is 9mm and a model 213 slide wont work in it, also a stripped repl. slide was over $70. a extractor $21.+ the extr. spring was $7.98 etc... as of last yr!
Here is a little more info, there was a model made in 9mm which also came with a 7.62 barrel etc. which was designed to handle both rounds, but these are rare!!! And had a larger exject. port and extrac. than a reg. 9mm. This is what you might have heard!

The Russian TT-33 pistol was mfg. by the Chinese on machinery from Russia. It was adopted into Chinese military service as the Type 54 in 1954.
There were 4 models of the Chinese Type 54 pistols chambered for 9mm imported that I have seen the models 54,54-1,213,and TU-90.
The Blue Book lists a compact model and a hi cap mag 54-1 as being imported also but I have never heard of or seen one.
All Chinese Type 54 copies had a safety added to comply with restrictions on imports of pistols into the USA. The models 54,54-1,and 213 were imported by a couple of importers. The 54 and 54-1 were exact copies of the Type 54 pistol except for the addition of the safety. The TU-90 was imported by Navy Arms only and differed from the other models only in the type of grips on them. They had plastic wrap around grips that covered the back of the frame like on the Tokaegypt exsport model pistol from Hungary. The NA pistols also came in kits that in addition to the 9mm pistol and 2 magazines had a 7.62x25mm barrel,recoil spring,and 2- 7.62x25mm magazines. There was also a 7.62x25mm/38 Super kit.
The 9mm models 54,54-1, and TU-90 used a modified Type 54 magazine that had a spacer running the full length of the back of the inside of the magazine and a shorter follower for the 9mm cartridge which is shorter than the 7.62x25mm cartridge. These magazines are commonly refured to as the "wide" 9mm Tokarev magazines. The model 213 had a spacer pinned to the back of the magazine well. It used a completly new design/mfg. magazine sized for the 9mm cartridge. These are commonly refured to as the "narrow" 9mm Tokarev magazines.
There was also a Norinco model 213-A 9mm pistol that differed from the others in that it had a different frame that used a 14rd double stack magazine.
I own two of the model 213 and one 213-A pistols. All are 100% reliable with fmj ammo and most hollow point ammo. The small windage adjustable only sights knock it out of the target pistol class but it makes a good plinker/truck/house gun.

Forgot to tell you, not many know this but there was a brand-new mini Tok.
pistol made by ZASTAVA-SERBIA made and imported in extremely limited nos. 2 yrs. ago. It is a 8 shot sub-compact Tok. and i am the lucky owner of no. :uhoh_smal ZS00000x (3 or below) dont want to list the s.n. These are called M-88-A and is a 9mm and it is sweeehhhttt! :tongue_sm
Hope this helps you!

Doesnt sound like its going to work damnit.

And no,Ive never heard of a compact tok...Will have to look it up.

Another question for you

What is the deal with a chinese type 51.Were they imported,or are they all bring back's.

Have a opportunity at one of these,but the price seemed alittle high.after searching and not finding any info on the model 51,maybe I should pick it up.

Thanks

veprk5.45, the best and easiest thing to do, is buy that gun and then get another in 7.62x25, or even better get a CZ-52 in 7.62x25, these are better than a tok. and a lot cheaper, but only get one that has 1 or 2 dots on top of slide usually 1 1/2 inches behind front sight!
I never heard of a nib chin. tok coming with a oil bottle, usually 2 mags, holster,
and 2 grip extensions and a clean. rod!
Best wishes!

Its got a slot in the case for the oil bottle!?but that would explain why its not there.It come's with two mags,cleaning rod and an empty spot for the oil bottle.

Do you have any info the chinese tokarev type 51.The only thing I found out was on wiki and all they said was it was some of the first tok's the chinese used.And that it was built with chinese and russian parts.Later the chinese made the model 54,which was all chinese parts.

Any info on the type 51 would be great aswell.

Thanks for breakin it down VZ.

Gotta love this website...3am and Im getting my answers.

The russians as well as the chin. made a model-51 pistol in 7.62x25!
The chin. is a very early version and quite rare and in general were bring-backs,
and can be very valuable, does it have a added safety?
I know of 2 which sold in past in good shape for $1500. + $1800.
How much does he want and what is the cond. The chin. type 51 is also called the type 54, to which the name was later changed!
Just remember on a lot of toks. and Czs there were some barrels made and mags
in different cal. which might work and might not, and can be dangerous!
It is just like a 7.63 mauser cart. which to russian copied and turned in to the 7.62 and used in a tok. Technically they are basically the same and can be used in either gun! But in reality a 7.62 tok. even thogh smaller in diameter by .01 if used in a mauser will blow it up due to higher press. but a 7.63 mauser can be safely used in a tok. but wont be powerful enough to reliably cycle the slide!
I would rec. you might get the t-51 since it is very desireable from a collectors view!
On the other hand i know of russian tok. that have sold for $2500.+ and you cant find a russian with no safety for under $600. :uhoh_smal

Better look at your glock, it is 5 am. Glad to be able to hopefully help you,
the empty spot in the box, most likely was for a small pack. containing 2 finger-grip extensions, as was on mine as well as a pack of dessicant!
If it has the manual, it will tell you service life is 2000 rounds. If this gun is nib
i would pay $300. tops.
The type 51 is very rare and if it does not have an import mark or safety and in good shape, i would go as high as $600. on it, since neither of these will ever never be imported again!
PS. Please give me a condition description of the 51 and if it has a safety, as well as asking prices on both!
You can send me a pm, if you like!
Thanks, James :sleep_sma

Unfortunelty when I was talking to the guy with the type 51 I didnt really ask any question's since the price was out of my range.I do know that one's without safety's fetch a greater price,but failed to ask him.Any tips on tryin to identify this thing.If it doesnt have a safety does that mean it a bring back?Not sure how this works???????



I got a counter offer if it turns out to have no safety,but wont know till tomorrow...Thing is,Im not a collecter,im a shooter.Of course if I could get a decent amount of money,or polish tok plus cash out of it,that'd be great.

Im on the west coast,we a few hours behind.

PM sent

The model 51 was made in 1951-1954 in manchuria, China from russian parts, but assembled and stamped made in china. It is the same as the russian 51 but
even though made from russian parts, in general it was made a little rougher in finish!
It could be a bring-back or an early import, if no safety,or a later import if it has a safety and stamp! The Gun-control of 1968 required the safety!
$30. a mag is a little high,unless they have loops on base! If the ammo is chin. it is either steel-jacked,steel-core :love_smal or the normal stuff!
If they ammo is not chin. it could be dangerous junk! Long story!
For $550. even if it has the safety and is in good shape, it is a great deal!
If it doesnt have the safety and is in good shape, it is pure theft!
If it doesnt have the safety and was imported before 1968 it did not need a import stamp!
Check the barrel with a bore-light and check entire function as well as a dryfire,
and if it has a safety, see if it works, chin. safetys are the worst of all types!
Is the ammo sealed in 2 tins? Would be interested on marking and yr. of man. of ammo!
Please keep us informed!
Thanks!

:sleep_sma PS. Check if the nos. on any mags match the gun! If not thats ok, too! :sleep_sma :sleep_sma :sleep_sma :sleep_sma

Do you mean good deal in today's market,cause I dont deal with those number's.If it isnt a good deal,Ill look somewhere else.

I will definetly field strip and inspect.Do it even on new guns.

The ammo is not in sealed tins,but was atleast kept in a ammo can with a desicant pack.I'll check the headstamp and bring some sheet cutter's to check for steel.I'll also check for the lanyard loop on the mags.Wasnt aware that added any value.

Im gonna try and talk him down into the 450 area,and if that dont work we can talk partial trade for something im sure.


Gotsta pass out,last day of gun show today.I will definetly keep you informed on the 51.Thanks again for the vast amounts of info VZ

It would have been a very good ++ deal last yr, and also a steal last year
before anybody heard of OBAMAHA! I would buy the gun at that price, if it is
matching all serial nos. and is in good mech. cond.
If the serial nos. should not match on gun, it would be a good deal!
I am sure you know about not buying a gun, if its serial no, doesnt match!
That 51 would easily go for $800.+ by itself on a auction! :uhoh_smal

What number's am I lookin for on the chinese ammo?

All chinese ammo is really good, mainly what i would like to know what nos. are on the head-stamps! That much ammo is now going for about $220.+ :uhoh_smal

Well,I didnt see the chinese tok in 7.62,but its a model 54 so think the price is to high.Besides,a buddy is going to sale me a mint cz-52 instead for good deal.Im sure no more then 150.He's got four and only really shoots two

I will get a new firing pin,and was considering hardened roller's,and a slide release..anything else you recommend?

Well, I had thought along it might be a 54 not a 51, yea to high! The CZ-52 is my all-time fav. Mil.surp, got my first in 96. It is mint and has the gray phosphate and is 99.9%!
I feel I am going to be typing all night, I know more about these than the toks. They come in 3 finishes, gray phosphate and than the others are refurbed in either black or blue (reblued) finish! The gray is most desired, also, also I would only get one that has 1 but no more than 2 dots, pin-head size on top of slide, about 2 in. behind front sight! People in the know are convinced that the Czechs used a dot system of up to 6 dots to rate these for acc. 1 being the best. However this has never been proven a 100% and there are about 4 other lines of thought on that, which I can dis-prove, so even people who are not sure try to get a 1 dot!
These guns are getting very scarce and prices have gone nuts, the only weakness is the cast firing pin, which can break if dry-fired, original repl. Ones range from $10.-$20. In general these are some of the most acc. Guns ever made in the mil-surp line, they do have a sturdy trigger etc. and lately there have been reports that engaging the de-cocker will discharge the weapon.
So please do the pencil test, to check de-cocker function! Remove mag. Then rack slide, insert empty mag, take gun in hand and firmly hold it down on table and insert a new pencil, rubber end first into barrel as far as possible and engage de-cocker with other hand, if pencil jumps, its not working proper!
Without going in a bunch of tech. Stuff , this is usually caused by Bubbas wanting to improve trigger performance and what these idiots do is buy a firing pin from a comp. Called Rich.& Harrington and the SOBs sell 3 types, of which only 1 is the proper one, the other type can disable the de-cocker function sometimes and there other type will dis-able it permanently! This shit is dangerous and Bubba when he sells the gun etc, has the wrong firing pin in it and the new owner has a accidental discharge! Most of these guns have been refurbed several times and really should not need anything, there were hardened rollers made in korea which are useless and wear out easily! I never have seen a need for an extended slide release,but to each, his own.I will post info On ammo later! There are also 9mm barrels avail. for it and some people have no prob. without using the 9mm mags, but others report they need to use 9mm mags as well as file the extractor, so it also is a gamble!

http://harringtonproducts.com/

The above link does have a lot of good info!The best ammo is usually any type of chin. most is steel-jacketed, however the hottest is any czech ammo, the m-48 is a steel-core which will defeat body armor level 3 with plates like a knife going through butter and has a vel. of 1650 fps avg. the new S&B has a vel. of 1725 fps and hornady also makes a 90 grain which has a vel. of 1925 fps!
This gun is a lot stronger than a Tok. but there is a nut-case named Clark who has been on all boards and got banned on most, he is an engineer whose life mission is to blow up CZ-52s with super-dangerous hot loads, and has been bad-mouthing these guns and bragging on the Toks! I fortunately have not seen any posts from him recently, maybe he blew himself up as many folks told him that would happen!
I run my own tests on armor as well as with a chrony, i had 12 yrs. ago bought a bunch of the czech m-48 ammo and found that there isnt anything comparable to it, in Velocity or defeating Body Armor, except the SS190 ammo for my 5.7 cal. guns, but 1 round is about $12.
There have been several reports that some people have duds due to bad primers in the m-48 ammo, which can be caused by improper storage and weak or bad springs.
There is also some bad old ammo from several countries out there, but all chin.
is good and most say their favorite ammo is the romanian, except the did have a bad yr. in 1982!
Hope this helps you some!
If you dont have a Makarov, these are getting extinct and also exp.
But do remember the 7.62 x 25 is not the best for self-defense,unless head-shots or in to major bone structure, but there is pers. defense ammo being made
but is about $2.50 a pop!

I heard the dot on the top of slide thing is just hype.Letter from the arsenal said nothing about a dot system,of course that didnt dis prove it either.I will have a choice of two,unless I want to spend more money.Bad thing is the guys a lazy sob and wont let me come and look them..said he'll just bring one to the range...so I guess I dont get a choice.

I think I may use this weapon as my open carry gun,so need a good one,and would like to make it as good as possible.

Thanks alot for the pencil test info...Those stories had me worried.Are you saying I shouldnt buy from Rich.& Harrington?If so,where should I buy from.If not which kit should I get?

So the grey phosphate are more desireable because they havent been redone.

Thanks

Looks like it may be a long night again

Ive also heard some people complaining about some serious trigger slap on the cz..I was contemplateing buying harringtons kit.

Read up on that outfits, firing pins etc. and it tells you how they can mess up the decocker, some things cant be improved and it was a mil. gun and worked great! The only thing i would buy for it is a solid steel firing pin and i see those in shotguns news all the time for around $20. but the mags are around $30. now!
I knew all about these guns since the 70s when most people never heard of them, and also yrs ago had a friend who actually was an armorer in the czech army and he told me about the dots.
There are some things which just are unknown, we are still learning new stuff yearly about many commie guns!
Yes, they gray is the most desired, i carry 1 of mine for self-def. on a reg. basis and never had any problems out of none, 1 was re-arsenaled 4x and each time was restored to new specs, a broken fir.pin or grip would sent it to be re-arsenaled!
The best thing with it or any gun is to get good and used to it.
I like my glock, but hate its grip which for me is to big, but thats life! There is a lot of good info in the link, in my previous post.
I had spent the last 12 yrs. looking for another 52 and finally found 2 early last yr. with 1 dot each.
There were only around 200.000 model 52s made and i have seen them going for $250.+ but sometimes a distr. might get a batch for about $150.
Just remember, at a show or pawnshop, you dont know what all Bubba did to it?
But from a distr. the quality of finish may not be very good! Also no telling what if anything was done to the 1 your buddy wants to sell? :uhoh_smal :sleep_sma :sleep_sma

Just remembered, where i had said we learn new stuff daily, well yesterday i learned that a number on an ak barrel ranging from 1-4 denotes the exact dimensions of barrel, when rebuilding from a kit as to exact size and today i learned the russians marked the front sight of the sks with numbers 1-5 to denote accuracy, 1 being sniper material etc. and from responses from other members both these facts were quite unknown even to many builders! :uhoh_smal
So if you have a russian sks, check to see how accurate factory test went. :sleep_sma :sleep_sma

Ive found 2 mags for 47 shipped.That was the first thing my buddy told me when I asked if he would sale one was the mag situation.Ive also got a buddy who has the eye's of an eagle when it come's to parts so Im sure at the next gun show he'll spot some mags for me...or just give me some.He's also gonna give a 9mm barrel for it.

the guy with the cz's got them from importers years and years ago for cheap.Other thing is I get to test it before I hand over the cash.Also,if for some reason I dont like it,he'll give me cash back for it when ever.Cant beat that!

These guys I met at the range years ago that im talkin about have to be the coolest folk ever.The deals I have gotten,and thing's ive been given is just amazing.Example,for christmas I got two chrome follower mags,two boxes of 9x18,60 rounds fo chinese steel core,some hungarian 7.62x39,three ammo cans,a box of .45,some makarov mags and other little things...Only thing is I cant sale the stuff for profit...like i would anyway.

Ive been researchin the cz since about 7pm tonight and prolly will be till I pick it up.I just double check on everything

Best luck and please keep me updated! Also check out that link for marking as to being rearsenaled etc. Everything and then some on that link i have known since the 70s. Some trigger-slap is normal and trying to improve it can and usually mess something else up! :wink_smal

Best luck and please keep me updated! Also check out that link for marking as to being rearsenaled etc. Everything and then some on that link i have known since the 70s. Some trigger-slap is normal and trying to improve it can and usually mess something else up! :wink_smal

Will do,and will do!

That is to cool about the ak barrel's.And awesome about the russian siminov's being marked 1-5 for accuracy.Unfortunatly,I dont own one,but my friends that do will be very interested to hear this.Cant wait to inpsect them and tell them about this.May have to find me one now.....Im getting so addicted to this stuff

Im gonna need a second job!

http://www.bobtuley.com/cz-52/

Here is a great link of the dangers of doing a trigger job etc..
But the part at bottem which says not to fire PPSh-42 ammo in the CZ-52,
is not true, since the czech m-48 ammo is hotter than it!
This is a must read about the heavy trigger, and the danger and stupidity of a trigger job!

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