Is a 1000 meter scope overkill for an RPK?

I just ordered a posp 4x24 with a 400m rangefinder, but was wondering if that is good enough or would the 1000m PSO-1 be better?

IMHO 400 is plenty, your not gonna get much of a grouping at that range with a used barrel anyway.

7.62x39 aint exactly a 1000 meter cartridge.

7.62x39 has the reach to easily go out to +1000 meters, the accuracy to hit a man sized target at that distance and the power to kill that target when it gets there.

7.62x39 has the reach to easily go out to +1000 meters, the accuracy to hit a man sized target at that distance and the power to kill that target when it gets there.
I beg to differ. Consider the following ballistics.
123 gr FMJ muzzle- 2412 fps 1607 ftlbs
500 yds- 1273 fps 443 ftlbs trajectory is -100.72 in at 500 yds

At 500 yds the round is approaching subsonic with a very rapid loss of speed and energy after 500 yds. It has already lost 48% of its velocity and 73% of its retained energy at this distance.

A ballistic program will show you that the round is virtually useless at 1000 yds as it has 66 FEET of drop at that distance and only 213 ft lbs of energy.

still more than enough to be lethal.

and where are you getting a 792 inch drop at 1000 yards?

are you zeroing that from 100 yards or from 600?

still more than enough to be lethal.

and where are you getting a 792 inch drop at 1000 yards?

are you zeroing that from 100 yards or from 600?

100 yd zero but it doesnt matter as the trajectory is the same regardless of zero. You can lob 1 in like a mortar at 1000 yds but it certainly is not suited to the task.

still more than enough to be lethal.

and where are you getting a 792 inch drop at 1000 yards?

are you zeroing that from 100 yards or from 600?

Southern boy you are totaly right. I got Yugo RPK with russian 6x42 scope on it and I managed to hit man size targets at 700m with considerable power too, round was powerfull enough still to break a rock or lift half of pound of dirt up. I don't hit the target every time but it can be effective with more practice and better ammo. The scope turret had to be adjusted all the way for that range so yes the trajectory drop is significant. See my picture bellow and notice the upper turret markings they go all the way aroundm I was sighting it in at 700M, I don't use yards because am from europe, even US army drop the stone age measurments.

dvanncvann your words prove you never shot scoped RPK at that distance, .

http://www.photodump.org/stored22/mojm72sniper.jpg

Just aim 38+ feet high :D

Southern boy you are totaly right. I got Yugo RPK with russian 6x42 scope on it and I managed to hit man size targets at 700m with considerable power too, round was powerfull enough still to break a rock or lift half of pound of dirt up. I don't hit the target every time but it can be effective with more practice and better ammo. The scope turret had to be adjusted all the way for that range so yes the trajectory drop is significant. See my picture bellow and notice the upper turret markings they go all the way aroundm I was sighting it in at 700M, I don't use yards because am from europe, even US army drop the stone age measurments.

dvanncvann your words prove you never shot scoped RPK at that distance, .

http://www.photodump.org/stored22/mojm72sniper.jpg
Actually Im an accomplished long range shooter and have shot competively for years.Your post states you shot at 700 meters. Thats a long way from 1000yds. You are correct though in your statement that i havent shot a scoped RPK at that distance. Thats because I know that it is completely unsuitable for that purpose and wont waste the ammo trying. To pay extra for a 1000 meter scope for an RPK is a waste of money which is what the OP was asking about in the first place.

here are the ballistic tables. Draw your own conclusions.....DV.....

Range/ Velocity / Impact / Drop / Energy
0 / 2400 / -0.5 / 0 / 1573
50 / 2255 / 0.6 / 0.92 / 1389
100/ 2121 / 0 / 3.5 / 1082
200/ 1865 / -7.3 / 14.9 / 950
250 / 1746 /-14.57 / 24.19 / 833
300/ 1632 / -24.68 / 36.33 / 727
350 / 1525 / -38.08 / 51.75 / 635
400 / 1426 / -55.21 / 70.91 / 555
450 / 1335 / -76.63 / 94.35 / 487
500 /1254 / -102.93 / 122.67 / 429
550 / 1183 / -134.73 / 156.5 / 382
600 / 1123 /-172.73 / 196.52 / 344
650 /1074 / -217.57 / 243.39 / 315
700 / 1033 / -269.9 / 297.74 / 291
750 / 998 / -330.28/ 360.15 / 272
800 / 968 /-399.31 / 431.2 / 256
850 / 942 / -477.46/ 511.38/ 242
900 / 918 / -565.26 / 601.2 / 230
950 / 896 / -663.16/ 701.13 / 219
1000/ 876 / -771.65 / 811.64 / 210

Yeah you just proved me right, at 700y or meters, speed of a bullet is close to 1000 feet per second, that is fast enough to kill a man. So it loses lots of energy so the penetration will not be grave but even one inch of penetration into human body can cause death.

Yeah you just proved me right, at 700y or meters, speed of a bullet is close to 1000 feet per second, that is fast enough to kill a man. So it loses lots of energy so the penetration will not be grave but even one inch of penetration into human body can cause death.

The discussion was about 1000 meters not 700 meters. I never said you were wrong about 700 meters. Read my first post.

The 7.62X39 mm cartridge is an intermediate cartridge. It was intended to bridge the gap between a full-powered rifle and a submachine gun. It was never intended to be sucessful at 1000 meters. In order for that cartridge impact at that distance, it would be on the verge of being considered indirect fire. I'm not saying it is impossible to hit a target at that distance with that round, but it would be more luck than science. I've got a broke watch in my dresser drawer at home and it is dead on twice a day.
That round and the weapons that fired it were put into service to be effective out to about 300 meters. The round is limited by physics. I can see that an RPK with a scope, top notch ammo, and tons of practice could reach out much further, but 1000 meters would require more powder charge, and a much heavier bullet to be consistantly effective.

A ballistic program will show you that the round is virtually useless at 1000 yds

just because you are puting 1000 meter scope does not mean that you will have to shoot only to 1000 meter range. The POSP scope that is made for 1000 meter range will only be 800m scope for AK round, because trajectory is so great that turret adjustment maxes out at 800m.

dvanncvann, AK round can be lethal and it is not useless at 1000m, southern boy is right. You went back and edited few of your posts to correct your missinformation, that shows how genuine you are

just because you are puting 1000 meter scope does not mean that you will have to shoot only to 1000 meter range. The POSP scope that is made for 1000 meter range will only be 800m scope for AK round, because trajectory is so great that turret adjustment maxes out at 800m.

dvanncvann, AK round can be lethal and it is not useless at 1000m, southern boy is right. You went back and edited few of your posts to correct your missinformation, that shows how genuine you are

OK. To anybody reading this thread....Let it be known that this is the OFFICIAL ATTABOY TO hakentt for hitting a target at 700 meters with an AK. Hakentt....YOU ARE THE MAN....WHOOOOO WHOOOOOO. I can only hope to 1 day achieve your skill level with an AK.
(Im done with this B*S*.) :the_finge

I have the official Yugoslav RPK manual M72. This is what is says about the RPK:

2.
Puškomitraljez (PM) 7,62 mm M72, M72B, M72B 1, M72B 1N i M72AB 1 (sl. 2) je automatsko oružje namenjeno
za neutralisanje i uništenje žive sile i vatrenih sredstava
neprijatelja na daljinama do 800 m. Najbolji rezultati postižu se iznenadnom vatrom na odstojanjima do 600 m.

google translate:

2.
Riflemachinegun (PM) 7.62 mm M72, M72B, M72B 1, M72B 1N and M72AB 1 (Sl. 2) is an automatic weapon for neutralization and destruction of living force and fireforce of enemies of the distance to 800 m. The best results are achieved with sudden fire off up to 600 m.

Factory manual says it is for up to 800M weapon, that is about 850yards or so. And if you want to have more fun you can try at 1000y. So the answer to original post is, POSP 1000m scope is perfect for RPK.
dvanncvann dude you totaly got owned in this thread.

Point target vs. Area target

Eurotrash at its finest (troll.... read some of his other posts). Obviously a young kid who feels like he has to impress everybody with how knowledgable he is.

point: the round was designed for sub 500 yards.

point: the round CAN REACH OUT TO 1000+ yards (hell a .22lr will go a mile and a half)

point: if you honestly need to make hits out at 1000 you dont need an AK, you need an airstrike or artillery.

the round can do it, the rifle can do it, unless theres a huge price gap get the scope that can do it.

7.62 x 39 and 30/30 are very close ballistically. Would you put a 1000 yard scope on a lever action Winchester Model 94? Putting one on an RPK would be the same sort of thing.

why cant you all just get along..lol OBAMA is comming for the both of you

7.62 x 39 and 30/30 are very close ballistically. Would you put a 1000 yard scope on a lever action Winchester Model 94? Putting one on an RPK would be the same sort of thing.

that comparison is valid.

if the gun he had was an AK and not an RPK with a longer, heavier barrel.

that comparison is valid.

if the gun he had was an AK and not an RPK with a longer, heavier barrel.

I'm fairly new on the board so I'm not looking to rile anyone up but I have done a fair amount of competing in CMP, High Power and 300 yard military rifle matches. No rifle chambered in 7.62 x 39 needs a 1000 yard scope.

Most ballistic tables use a 24" test barrel for comparison so unless the RPK we're talking about has a barrel longer than 24"(23.2" is the standard RPK length AFAIK) it's 100% valid. Barrel thickness doesn't effect velocity.

Both 30/30 and 7.62 x 39 have more than a 100" drop at 500 yards using a 150 yard zero. They're both between 320 and 370ft-lbs at 500 yards. They're both just barely breaking a thousand feet per second at 500 yards.

Anyone can put any scope, laser, flashlight, dingus or doo-hickey on their gun that they like. It's a free country. The question was whether the RPK needed a 1000 yard scope. Considering that you would need to hold at least 6 FEET over a man sized target's head just to hit center mass at 500 yards, it seems obvious that shooting accurately out to 1000 yards would be farcical. If the RPK is a 3MOA rifle, then at 500 yards it could be impacting bullets 15-18"" to either side of that 6' hold over requirement in order to hit a man sized target. So you might need to hold it 7.5 feet over...or you might be OK with just 4.5 feet. It would change from shot to shot.

Seriously....think about it. You would be very lucky to hit a car sized target at 500 yards with an RPK in semi-auto 50% of the time.

Seriously....think about it. You would be very lucky to hit a car sized target at 500 yards with an RPK in semi-auto 50% of the time.

well seeing as how i use a kit built romy G at 600 and can stay on a 12 inch steel plate all day you might want to consider getting better guns than what centuries angry beavers chew out on a daily basis.

if this is the scope the OP is considering getting go right ahead, i have the exact same one and it works just fine.

http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=600

http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/graph/images/sighting_devices/posp_pso/posp_8x42vd_1_600.jpg

point is, not the gun is not a sniper rifle, its not designed for long range shots with accuracy.

but the round can reach out that far and a quality made gun is good enough to keep the shots within a grouping small enough to be a threat to a man sized target while still retaining enough power to kill or seriously injure said target if it is struck.

unless the scope is ungodly expensive i see no reason to not have it on the gun. and the one i linked above is only $190 so cost is not an issue.

Just Buy It And You Can Tell All That You Can Shoot The Eye Off A Gnat At 1200 Yds.

Just Buy It And You Can Tell All That You Can Shoot The Eye Off A Gnat At 1200 Yds.

Is that a Georgia gnat or an Alabama gnat cause Georgia gnats are smaller. ;)

well seeing as how i use a kit built romy G at 600 and can stay on a 12 inch steel plate all day you might want to consider getting better guns than what centuries angry beavers chew out on a daily basis.

if this is the scope the OP is considering getting go right ahead, i have the exact same one and it works just fine.

http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=600

http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/graph/images/sighting_devices/posp_pso/posp_8x42vd_1_600.jpg

point is, not the gun is not a sniper rifle, its not designed for long range shots with accuracy.

but the round can reach out that far and a quality made gun is good enough to keep the shots within a grouping small enough to be a threat to a man sized target while still retaining enough power to kill or seriously injure said target if it is struck.

unless the scope is ungodly expensive i see no reason to not have it on the gun. and the one i linked above is only $190 so cost is not an issue.

Anyone can put anything they like on their gun. The 10 ring on a 600 yard High Power target is 12 inches in diameter. Usually, only Expert level and above shooters using handloads in their .308 and .223 rifles get them all in the 10 ring during the slow fire prone stage. You may have a very fine RPK that you did a great job building but there is not an RPK in the world that will shoot with a Supermatch M1A or an accurized AR-15 using custom handloads at 600 yards.

7.62 x 39 drops more than 8 feet at 500 yards. You are not hitting a 12 inch plate every time at 600 yards using ANY rifle chambered in 7.62 x 39 no matter what scope you stick on it. If you're a casual shooter who puts less than a thousand rounds down range a year, you would be lucky to hit a 12 inch plate at 600 yards 3 out of 5 shots using a .308 bolt gun with a scope from a solid rest.

At a 1000 yards i just use a barret, takes all the guess work out.

You are not hitting a 12 inch plate every time at 600 yards using ANY rifle chambered in 7.62 x 39 no matter what scope you stick on it.

if you cant hold 2 MOA off a bench you have a problem.

good handloads and a well made gun will do it all day.

No one who has actually shot a rifle at 600 yards would be dumb enough to claim that they can hit a 12 inch plate everytime at 600 yards with a rifle chambered in 7.62 x 39. You can't do it. No one could do it because neither the rifle nor the round itself is physically capable of that level of accuracy at 600 yards. If you knew ANYTHING about shooting at ranges beyond 300 yards you'd realize what a fool you're making of yourself. Wind doping, ballistic coefficient of the round, barrel harmonics....even mirage on the barrel are real variables when shooting at 600 yards for full power cartridges like .308. Do you even realize that a 5-10 mph cross wind would push a subsonic round several FEET off target at 600 yards? Just because you can shoot a 2" group at 100 yards that DOES NOT mean you will shoot a 12" group at 600 yards. It doesn't work that way and you stating that it does shows that you have never really shot at long range before. It's great that you're an enthusiastic hobbyist who enjoys the AK platform but there is a line you should not cross when discussing guns and that line is what you actually know vs. what you think you know.

Putting a coffee can sized exhaust tip on your mom's Honda does not turn it into a 10 second car in the quarter mile.

Taking a few martial arts classes does not mean it's a good idea to get in the octagon with Chuck Liddell.

Shooting a 7.62 x 39 AK with a 23 inch barrel does not mean it suddenly becomes a sniper rifle.

You...can...NOT...hit...a...12" plate...everytime....at 600 freaking yards...with an RPK...period.

it will do it all day.

I like pie.

Putting a coffee can sized exhaust tip on your mom's Honda does not turn it into a 10 second car in the quarter mile.

I love it!!!! What is it with kids these days??? They take the hand-me-down honda civic, put a spoiler and a big tail pipe on it and they think they are the stuff.

With that said, back to the topic.

My question would be: "Why would you try to get a RPK to shoot a 12 in plate at 600 yards?" The rifle was never intended to do that. That would be like trying to lob a hand grenade over 100 yards. Not saying that an olympic athlete with lots of training couldn't get it done. But why bother, grab the grenade launcher that was designed to do that job.

Why try and make a 7.62X39 that was only designed to be effective out to 300 yards go twice that distance? Get the high powered rifle for that.

Not saying that it could never be done. But I use this rationality: I have a broken watch in the nightstand by the bed, it's dead on twice a day.

-snip- You may have a very fine RPK that you did a great job building but there is not an RPK in the world that will shoot with a Supermatch M1A or an accurized AR-15 using custom handloads at 600 yards. -snip-

I hope to change that this summer with 2 builds I have coming up.

We will all forget about it, but when I am done with them and have gotten some results... :) I will be sure to let you ALL know.

-myers

Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls..... the iron sights are adjustable out to 1000m

Set your sights to that setting...... then sight the weapon..... where the hell do YOU think the bullet is gonna go?

Its simply not a sniper rifle nor a sniper round.

I have never had the oportunity to shoot an ak past 100 yards. I would love to try it at 300 yards. In the military I could shoot consistant center mass kill shots at 300 yards with an m16a2 open sights.

Man I thought I had killed this thread for good! :)

I've shot a 74 during a 3-gun match out to 300yds. While I am no expert marksman, it was difficult to keep consistent hits. That was the 5.45 round. I have no experience with the 47 that far out.

I know at 200 yards at I can accurately hit a 55gal drum off hand... but 200 yards and 1000 yards are exponentially different.

-myers

Personally I think about any kind of scope on a Automatic Rifle such as the M249SAW or the RPK is unpractical..

Nothing about 7.62x39 is suitable for 1000 yard shooting. Depending on elevation / air density / etc. the 7.62x51 isn't even guaranteed to be suitable at 1000 yards.

Not saying you can't hit anything, but try using the right tool for the job!

get a psl.
put 1000 yrd scope on it.
enjoy bear.

this thread brings the funny, 12 inch plate at 600 all day ehhh, please do tell what ammo are you shooting.

My 7.62x39 easily make it 1000 yards and way beyond.... in my truck! :laugh_sma

If you correctly dial the windage scale on a 1 M wide target (6 mil for 600M ), even with 400M rangefinder, you can supplement the accuracy with your own custom BDC table simply by using the chevrons (your scope probably has 3 chevrons).

My fixed scope POSP mag, 6x24 POSP for my 7.62x39 AKM says to:

"To determine the chevron spacing in MOAs for your particular sight,
conduct the trial shooting [100yrd is standard]…Use the chevrons and elevation knob to create your own BDC table for ANY caliber."

Just read the manual, esp. Chevrons section, and Zeroing & suggestions for BDC RPK table

My 7.62x39 easily make it 1000 yards and way beyond.... in my truck! :laugh_sma
LMAO! :)

I've got you beat courtesy of Northwest Airlines!

Oh, I forgot...... does anyone have a ballistic chart for a 7.62x54R? I've found them for 7.62x39 and .308. I'd like to see the comparison between the three different rounds.

I shoot out to 600 and hit the steel piggy with better than a 95% rate with russian or bulgarian 5.45x39 . I use a 8X belarus scope . I like the biggest scope with the best scope picture possible because I am friggin old people and my eyes suck .
I dont know how tight the groups are because I am no sniper. I dont even waste my time using paper at that range and am glad my club set a steel target out there for that reason . Its just too much hassle and makes the whole line wait for target changes , even though they have a road you can drive you car to change out the 600 yard targets.

As far as lethality i always say this .if you doubt it so whole heartedly go stand down range and tell me that I wont hit or kill you . LOL . I wouldnt bet my life on it and doubt you would bet yours.

I worked with a guy that died falling off a 4 foot ladder .Never say never. Theirs no reliable chart for death .


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/vladimir2112/zzzzz024086.jpg

I love it!!!! What is it with kids these days??? They take the hand-me-down honda civic, put a spoiler and a big tail pipe on it and they think they are the stuff.


My question would be: "Why would you try to get a RPK to shoot a 12 in plate at 600 yards?" The rifle was never intended to do that. That would be like trying to lob a hand grenade over 100 yards. Not saying that an olympic athlete with lots of training couldn't get it done. But why bother, grab the grenade launcher that was designed to do that job.

Why try and make a 7.62X39 that was only designed to be effective out to 300 yards go twice that distance? Get the high powered rifle for that.

Not saying that it could never be done. But I use this rationality: I have a broken watch in the nightstand by the bed, it's dead on twice a day.


Take 3 feet of 2.5" exhaust pipe and you have a custom one-off catback exhaust as far as the honda thing goes.
as far as a 600 yd. shot with a rpk, why not try? you never know how long of a shot youll ever need to make, especially with the world as messed up as it is right now. so why not practice