VEPR/Saiga AR15/other Mag mod?

Hey fullas, I remember seeing on another board some crazy bugger's AK in 6.5 Grendel that used AR15 mags. I believe he used the adaptor that was offered by ORF for a short while. Has anyone else used one of these for their .223 AK? Did the concept work well?

I have access to a machine shop and am good friends with several machinists, so I am considering making a mag adaptor up for either a Saiga or VEPR to take AR15 mags.

I take it that the VEPR with it's heavier receiver would be the better option to do this mod to as it would be less likely to root the receiver via welding the adaptor on?

The M16 magazines are some of the worst. The Beretta AR70, Sig 540, Sig 550, Steyr AUG and H&K G36 all base their magazines on the AK magazine for a reason.

I have one on both my Galil and .223 Saiga. I've had no problems with feeding at all, but it takes a lot of work and patients to get it set up properly in the Saiga. I only have one concern with this mod....you have to remove (thin) a substancial amount of material from the trunion to allow the mag adapter to sit deep enough to function properly. I haven't
had any problems, but it's still a valid concern.
In hindsite, if I were to do it over, I think I'd look into leaving the trunion intact, cut the adapter, and weld it to the receiver making the AR mags a propriatory item. P Mags seem to work the best, but I've also had a lot of luck with the cheap CI mags.

Here's a link with pics on the project,
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=20505&hl=

The M16 magazines are some of the worst. The Beretta AR70, Sig 540, Sig 550, Steyr AUG and H&K G36 all base their magazines on the AK magazine for a reason.

That may be so, but here in NZ Hi-Cap .223 AK mags sell for around $200+ IF you can find them. AR Mags are around the $100 mark for a 30 rounder, and a lot easier to find. :)

I only have one concern with this mod....you have to remove (thin) a substancial amount of material from the trunion to allow the mag adapter to sit deep enough to function properly. I haven't
had any problems, but it's still a valid concern.
In hindsite, if I were to do it over, I think I'd look into leaving the trunion intact, cut the adapter, and weld it to the receiver making the AR mags a propriatory item. P Mags seem to work the best, but I've also had a lot of luck with the cheap CI mags.


Cheers for the info dude, I am planning on machining up the adaptor from scratch, if you guys in the USA cannot find an ORF-made adaptor, then I have no-show in NZ. :)

Cheers for the link btw.

Even at twice the price, how many do you need? The m16 magazines don't work in AK's in full auto and only a few certain ones will work in semi auto. The ORF adapter is a copy of the IMI Galil M16 magazine adapter. In NZ you should try the Steyr AUG magazines.

If you know anybody that was deployed in East Timor, ask them how well the M16 magazines worked in the Indonesian FNC's. They don't work well at all. The Indonesian magazines have plastic followers with the raised area on the same side as the M16 magazine. The magazine bodies are steel though. The Belgian FNC magazines have steel followers and bodies and the followers have the raised area on the opposite side from M16 magazines. This makes them a bit more reliable in the FNC but they still aren't 100%.

Even at twice the price, how many do you need?

As many as I can get my filthy little hands on. ;) Ideally I want ten of whatever mag I end up using to cover range-use, pest-control use (goats, wallabies, etc) and spares to cover the gap caused by malfunctioning magazines until I can replace them. :)


The m16 magazines don't work in AK's in full auto and only a few certain ones will work in semi auto.

Didn't know that, could you please elaborate why? Not that we can actually shoot the civvie owned FA's over here. :'(


In NZ you should try the Steyr AUG magazines.

That's a good point, they aren't 'officially' surplused onto the civvie market by the NZDF, but they do pop up a hell of a lot more than proper AK .223 mags.

I'm not sure what causes the problem in full auto, but I see it mostly in the FNC and some with the Italian Beretta AR 70/90. Britain spent a bunch of money on redesigning the magazine at least two times. Even the US has gone through a few versions even though the M16 magazine seems most reliable in the M16. Spain had so many problems with the M16 magazine in the CETME in the 1991 Gulf War they couldn't get rid of the rifle fast enough.

The best 223/5.56 rifles have their magazine based on the AK magazine. The Sig 550, the Steyr AUG and the H&K G36. Most of the rifles that do take M16 magazines have magazines "improved" by the rifle's maker.

What type of M16 magazines are available in NZ? Check eBay for the IMI Galil M16 magazine adapter. Not sure if there is an import problem to NZ for it though.

Most of the M16 mags I have are Colt ones, with a few other manufacturers thrown into the mix, can't check atmo as I am 300km away from them. :(

The new Mill turns up at work mid-October so shortly after that will be the start date for the project. :)

Hey Igor, are we allowed to send you some hicap mags? At $15 a pop here, it'd be worth it of course.

Hey Igor, are we allowed to send you some hicap mags? At $15 a pop here, it'd be worth it of course.

Sending gun parts internationally will get you in trouble on both ends. The cost of doing it wouldn't make it worth any savings.

Bummer!!

Sending gun parts internationally will get you in trouble on both ends. The cost of doing it wouldn't make it worth any savings.

Tell me about it.
~$200US for the export permit
$60US for four magazines
$20US postage
$400NZD for four hand-in mags to get import permit

I know the firearm export regs for the USA changed just recently, and if the parts are worth less than $100US you don't need a permit to export. I don't know if the BATF considers the magazines parts 'necessary to the function' though.
Regardless of that though, I would need to get a permit to import them over here which would mean handing in 4 x 30 round magazines to be destroyed. :(

The main reason for importing new mags into NZ isn't the savings part, it is so you have workable mags to use. Most of the mags sold here are sold as 'hand-ins' for import permits ie: they are cheap, but don't work. I have a pile of these stashed for when I get my AR15 (sometimes the cops will only let you import like mags!).

You can't even order followers and springs?

It's dubious. Springs can get through without an import permit if they are labeled as springs, gun springs require a permit. Kinda fooked considering there are several spring manufacturers in NZ that will make springs off a sample for bugger all. ;)
The followers themselves are usually sent as separate packages and labelled 'sporting goods' or 'injection moulded plastic'. Customs has finally clicked onto this, and started coming down hard on people.
The stupid thing is, there is no license requirement to own magazines in NZ, only if you want to fit them to a rifle, yet the police are very strict ont he imports. :(