View Thread: Remember how SCARY 1990's gun control got?


Zane Zackerly
My comments to the document postings are in RED to make it easier to follow.


I realize these are a LOOOONG read, but for those of you who weren’t there, it gives you some perspective on just how ‘scary’ the 1990’s became with regard to gun control laws.

Some are of the opinion that an armed insurrection by the population was on the horizon. I make no moral or other judgment concerning this; I’m simply repeating what others were saying.

I ALSO MAKE NO JUDGMENT AS TO HOW ACCURATE OR COMMENDABLE ANY OF THE OPINIONS PRESENTED IN THESE DOCUMENTS MAY BE; I SIMPLY PRESENT THEM AS HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS WHICH CONVEY THE PARANOIA THAT SOME (READ: A LOT) OF GUN OWNERS FELT DURING THE PUSH FOR MORE GUN CONTROL IN THE 1990’S.

I should also point out, that when I mention political parties in my comments, I am only mentioning them for the historical perspective. I am not judging the merits of any political party.

Now that DC v. Heller has ruled that the Second Amendment is unequivocally an individual right, I hope we will never come to the brink of national chaos again.

The first one concerns what happened after the Brady Bill passed and went into effect:

http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=218

“November 1995
Volume 13, Number 11

Backfire on Gun Control
Dale Steinreich

Since October 1993, we have lived through the biggest buying spree of firearms in the history of the U.S. It began just before the passage of the Brady Bill and has yet to die down. And the boom in sales will continue so long as members of the governing elites are infatuated with the prospect of gun bans.

Last summer, demand for guns and ammunition soared to such astronomic levels that even militant gun advocate Jim Shults, executive editor of Modern Gun magazine, became alarmed. Gun companies were up to their ears in back orders. They ranged from a small specialty producer filling orders for 16,000 guns to a large maker for 178,000. Two mid-size companies were back ordered for 45,000 and 56,000 weapons each.

Ammunition and components were back ordered for an astounding nine months. At last summer's annual S.H.O.T. show in Dallas, a foreign maker's inventory of five million bullets was quickly cleaned out and replaced by back orders for 97 million more.

This spree, which was just the beginning, was prompted by government intervention. Regulations on the market and impending bans of certain guns caused a deluge of weapons buying. Many citizens felt that these laws were harbingers of a complete ban and confiscation of all private firearms, and they were reacting defensively to the legislation.

Shults called some Members of Congress to explain this, and was hopeful that, once they understood it, politicians would stop considering more gun bans. Surely no reasonable person could believe that such legislation had anything to do with slowing the amount of gun buying. They were causing the opposite to happen.

But the governing elites, who are anything but reasonable, then passed the "assault weapons" ban anyway. The rationale was to stop the rash of homicides, but the affected weapons were involved in only 0.5% of all homicides. Thus the ban made us no safer than before.

In the real world of gun markets, the response was explosive. As demand surged, Colt AR-15s jumped from $995 to $1,600 in price, while AK-47s jumped from $200 to $600. The prices of TEC-9s, M1-As, Uzis, Mac 10s, and FALs reacted similarly in the midst of panic buying by the public.
I went to Birmingham, Alabama, one of the largest wholesale and retail centers of the U.S. gun industry. "Bill Clinton has to be the best thing that has ever happened to the gun industry," a salesman at one store told me. Standing in front of a wall full of AK-47s he said, "Our sales jumped 50% after the Brady Bill and about 80% after the Crime Bill."

After a summer of brawling with Congress to remove these "weapons of terror from our streets," Bill Clinton vacationed for a week before signing the "urgent" bill on Sep. 13, 1994. But every day he was in Martha's Vineyard, USA Magazines, Inc., worked overtime manufacturing one million of the soon-to-be-banned, high-capacity magazines per day. Other manufacturers behaved similarly, making sure that supply met demand.
Since last December, prices have steadily fallen. Prompted by the initial surge in prices, people who had owned weapons before the "ban" suddenly found it worthwhile to sell their weapons for sometimes more than triple what was originally paid for them. The prospect of large profits was enough to overcome the strong sentimental value of a weapon to many gun owners.

In addition, the guns that were banned began to appear in new, unbanned forms. The government defines an assault rifle as a weapon with two of these characteristics: flash suppressor, folding stock, protruding pistol grip, bayonet lug, or grenade launcher. Gun companies removed one or two of these features and their "assault weapons" were magically legal again. The banned Colt AR-15, with its flash suppressor and bayonet lug removed, was reintroduced (and is now legally sold) as the Colt Sporter Match Competition HBAR.

Colt had lots of work to do compared with Springfield Armory.

Springfield's M1-A doesn't have a pistol grip, so all the company had to do was remove the bayonet lug. No need to worry about a more politically correct name: the M1-A is once again available, but without the bayonet attachment. The streets are now safe from drive-by bayonettings.

At what point will liberals realize that their anti-gun campaign is having the opposite effect of what they intend? Let's consider other examples.

The Treasury Department raised the fee for becoming a gun dealer. The hope was to make guns less accessible, while the effect was the opposite. Many small dealers selling small weapons have not renewed. Consumers now go to larger retailers, where they discover and buy a greater variety of more interesting and powerful guns. Alarmed by the disappearance of dealers and the variety of available weaponry, self protectors become full-fledged collectors.

If politics is about rewarding friends, the militia movement must be pulling the strings in Washington. The movement went from nothing in 1993 to a burgeoning industry of organized groups that actively train in military maneuvers and produce and sell newsletters and videotapes. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), a gun controller, has seen the California militia movement go from zero to 34 chapters in the last year and a half.

The government's campaign has caused gun shows to come alive. Most people go to get guns, but others find they offer enormous opportunities for political organizing. Average Joes, who were only involved on the political periphery, join movements that drive liberals bananas.

Never has the principle of the unintended effect been more operative. So what are the liberals doing about it? During the Ruby Ridge hearings, Feinstein, with all the contempt she could muster, denounced America as "a gun-happy society." Indignant that anyone would even think of questioning the actions of her sniper friends in the FBI, she said "I will continue to fight until my dying breath to control weapons in this country."
Jim Shults reports that gun sales are not as high as they were last year, but they remain very brisk. Although they could slow down even more at the beginning of next year, they could easily rocket back to or exceed 1994 levels if Washington politicians insist on raising the specter of another nationwide disarmament.

A free people are "gun happy" to the same degree that government and its employees are "power hungry." If this were a perfect world of no crime, public or private, there would be no reason to buy the guns that upset liberals so much. But so long as power tends to corrupt, and the government threatens to abolish the right of self protection, Americans will continue to see stockpiling as a necessary corrective.”

What is not repeated in the article is that Jim Shults asked Congressmen: “Do you think that people are out buying guns and ammo in these quantities just so they can turn them in?”

The militia movement became the “loophole” that many citizens thought might allow them to keep their firearms: if firearms were only legal in the context of the militia, then gun owners would form their own militias. The shortwave radio bands became “public access” venues for the militia movement. Radio personalities like Mark Koernke, Officer Jack McLamb, and Radio Free America’s Tom Valentine suggested almost openly that “the balloon was about to go up” as far as another revolution or Civil War.

In 1995, when it was reported in the media that Tim McVeigh had been associated with the militia movement, public opinion turned against the militias. The FBI and other agencies virtually harassed the shortwave radio programs out of existence, and the fact that no new gun laws were pending in Congress contributed to the militia movement going back underground, and a more politically and socially palatable pro-gun movement took hold in its place. That movement, in my opinion, still exists today.

THE FOLLOWING IS A LAW THAT DIDN’T PASS, THANK GOD! This law had no hope of passing after the Republicans took Congress away from the Democrats in 1994. It shows what might have happened.

HERE IT IS:

http://wiretap.area.com/Gopher/Gov/Bills/hr3932.ex

That would be H. R. 3932, "Gun Violence Prevention Act of 1994":

SEC. 204. FEDERAL ARSENAL LICENSE.
(a) Offense.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by
section 203(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
"(x) It shall be unlawful for a person to possess more than 20 firearms
or more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition..."

combined with:

SEC. 312. DEFINITION OF FIREARM EXPANDED TO INCLUDE COMPONENT PARTS.
Section 921(a)(3)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by
striking "or receiver" and inserting ", receiver, barrel, stock, ammunition
magazine, or any part of the action".

Force all states to license handguns:

SEC. 101. STATE LICENSE REQUIRED TO RECEIVE TRANSFER OF A HANDGUN.

Limit the number of firearms sold:

SEC. 301. PROHIBITION ON MULTIPLE HANDGUN TRANSFERS.
(a) In General.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended
by section 204(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new
subsection:
"(y)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any
person to--
"(A) receive transfer of more than 1 handgun during any 30-day
period;
"(B) transfer to another person more than 1 handgun during any 30-day
period;

OK, make it harder for businesses to maintain their FFL status:

SEC. 303. LICENSE APPLICATION FEES.
Section 923(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in paragraph (1)(A) by striking "$1,000" and inserting "$10,000";
(2) in paragraph (1)(B) by striking "$50" and inserting "$1,000";
(3) in paragraph (1)(C) by striking "$10" and inserting "$1,000";
(4) in paragraph (2)(A) by striking "$1,000" and inserting "$10,000";
(5) in paragraph (2)(B) by striking "$50" and inserting "$1,000";
(6) in paragraph (3)(A) by striking "$1,000" and inserting "$10,000";
and
(7) in paragraph (3)(B) by striking "$200 for 3 years, except that
the fee for renewal of a valid license shall be $90 for 3 years" and
inserting "$1,000 per year".

And let's keep you wondering about your FFL a little longer, enough time
for your business to go under:


SEC. 304. ACTION ON FIREARMS LICENSE APPLICATION.
Section 923(d)(2) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking
"forty-five-day" and inserting "180-day".


Not to mention the fact no one will sell firearms if:

SEC. 314. CIVIL LIABILITY FOR VIOLATION OF FIREARM LAW.
Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the
end the following new subsection:
"(i)(1) Any person who sells, delivers, or otherwise transfers any
firearm or ammunition in violation of Federal law shall be liable for all
damages proximately caused by such sale, delivery, or other transfer.
"(2) An action to recover damages under paragraph (1) may be brought in a
United States district court by, or on behalf of, any person, or the estate
of any person, who suffers bodily injury or death as a result of the
discharge of a firearm or ammunition sold, delivered, or transferred in
violation of Federal law. Prevailing plaintiffs in such actions shall be
awarded costs and reasonable attorneys' fees. Punitive damages shall be
recoverable by the plaintiff if the defendant is found to have intentionally
or recklessly violated the law.
"(3) No action under paragraph (2) may be brought by or on behalf of a
person who was engaged in a criminal act against the person or property of
another person at the time of the injury.
"(4) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt or otherwise
limit any other cause of action available to any person.".

Taking away piece by piece:

SEC. 401. PROHIBITED WEAPONS.
(a) Prohibition.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended
by section 301(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new
subsection:
"(z)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any
person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a prohibited weapon.

"(31) The term 'prohibited weapon' means--
"(A) a firearm muffler or firearm silencer;
"(B) a short-barreled shotgun;
"(C) a short-barreled rifle;
"(D) a destructive device;
"(E) a semiautomatic assault weapon;
"(F) a Saturday-night-special handgun;
"(G) a nonsporting ammunition; and
"(H) a large-capacity ammunition feeding device.

Here is the beginning of the Federal Handgun ban:

"(33) The term 'Saturday-night-special handgun' means--
"(A) any handgun that has a barrel, slide, frame or receiver which is
a die casting of zinc alloy or any other nonhomogeneous metal which will
melt or deform at a temperature of less than 800 degrees Fahrenheit;
"(B) any pistol which does not have a positive manually operated
safety device, a double action revolver which does not have a safety
feature which automatically causes the hammer to retract to a point where
the firing pin does not rest upon the primer of the cartridge, or any
single action revolver which does not have a safety feature which by
manual operation causes the hammer to retract to a point where the firing
pin does not rest upon the primer of the cartridge;
"(C) any revolver with a safety device which cannot withstand the
impact of a weight equal to the weight of the revolver dropping from a
distance of 36 inches in a line parallel to the barrel upon the rear of
the hammer spur, a total of 5 times;
"(D) any pistol that has a combined length and height less than 10
inches with the height (right angle measurement to barrel without
magazine or extension) being at least 4 inches and the length being at
least 6 inches, or any revolver that has a barrel length of less than 3
inches or has an overall frame (with conventional grips) length (not
diagonal) of less than 4 1/2 inches; or
"(E)(i) uses ammunition of the following calibers--
"(I) .22 short;
"(II) .25; or
"(III) .32; and
"(ii) has an overall weight, while unloaded, of less than 18 ounces.

Plus let's also give the BATF more room to outlaw firearms:

SEC. 402. FIREARMS AND CHILD SAFETY.
(a) Unlawful Act.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is
amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
"(aa)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture or import a
firearm that does not have as an integral part a device or devices that--
"(A) prevent a child of less than 7 years of age from discharging the
firearm by reason of the amount of strength, dexterity, cognitive skill,
or other ability required to cause a discharge;
"(B) prevent a firearm that has a removable magazine from discharging
when the magazine has been removed; and
"(C) in the case of a handgun other than a revolver, clearly indicate
whether the magazine or chamber contains a round of ammunition.


Make it more expensive for people to practice shooting:


SEC. 403. INCREASED TAX ON HANDGUNS AND HANDGUN AMMUNITION.
(a) Increased Tax.--Section 4181 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986
(relating to imposition of tax on firearms) is amended--
(1) by striking "10 percent" and inserting "30 percent";
(2) by striking "Shells, and cartridges" and inserting "ammunition
other than handgun ammunition (as defined in section 921 of title 18,
United States Code)"; and
(3) by inserting at the end the following:
"ARTICLES TAXABLE AT 50 PERCENT
"Any handgun ammunition (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United
States Code).".



THINGS GOT SO SCARY AT ONE POINT, THAT THERE WERE RUMORS OF A SURVEY GIVEN TO MILITARY PERSONNEL, ASKING THEM IF THEY WOULD FIRE ON US CITIZENS:

http://www.mikenew.com/29palms.html



Question # 46
"I Would Fire Upon U.S. Citizens..."
The RESISTER has confirmed that US Navy SEAL platoons, including SEAL Team Six, Marine combat veterans stationed at Twenty-Nine Palms, CA, and Marine basic trainees at Camp Pendelton, CA, have been administered a questionnaire asking, among other things, if they would "...fire upon US citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the US government."
The questionnaire was first administered to operators by the commanders of SEAL Team Six on 15 September 1993, then subsequently to the remaining SEAL platoons throughout September and October. Rumors began circulating in November that US Army DELTA operators were given the same or similar questionnaire. The SF Underground had been aware of the questionnaire since late September but our observers had been unable to secure a copy or confirm other than its substance consisted of questions pertaining to the subordination of the US Military to the UN and confiscation of the firearms of US citizens. In early January, 1994, we obtained a copy of the questionnaire from one of our DOD sympathizers but lacking corroboration we ran the story in Vol.I, No.1 of The RESISTER as a rumor.
On January 22, 1994, one of our observers copied a chilling message off the Internet from Petty Officer 2nd Class W. Kelly, US Navy Special Warfare Team Six, to D. Hawkins, Re: Gun Confiscation. Kelly began by stating that the questionnaire was "...to find out if we would follow the orders of commanding officers without question." (Kelly omitted the fact that the questionnaire assumes "commanding officers" gives equal authority to UN officers commanding US forces.) Kelly continued; "If you wish to find out how I answered I said yes I would fire and kill all persons attempting to resist...we aren't around to be the good guys." Remember, Kelly is referring to American civilians.
In February, 1994, MODERN GUN magazine ran a story on the elusive questionnaire which was subsequently circulated by various patriotic citizens groups. Then, on 10 May, 1994, the questionnaire was administered to Marine Desert Storm veterans at Twenty-Nine Palms, CA. A Marine smuggled a copy of the questionnaire out of the testing center and mailed it on 15 May, 1994, with a cover letter, to the editor of THE NEW AMERICAN, which ran the story in their July 11, 1994, issue. THE NEW AMERICAN quotes the Marine's impression that the questionnaire "was just research for this (Navy) commander's(sp) degree." The RESISTER obtained a copy of the Marine's letter, which actually states: "A Navy Commander came before us and said he was working on his masters degree and he was writing a paper about giving up our military's soverenty(sp) to the United Nations Secretary General."
The official DOD lie surrounding the questionnaire entitled "Combat Arms Survey," supports that of the Navy Commander. Significantly, the Combat Arms Survey was first given at the time Presidential Decision Directive (PDD) 25 was being prepared. The RESISTER's correspondent in the Pentagon staff of the Joint Chiefs of Staff confirms that PDD 25 surrenders control of the U.S. military to the United Nations. (A cursory survey of articles written by MACOM commanders and staff members in official military journals for the past year reveals a universal acceptance of U.N. control of the American military.)
The RESISTER has been eliciting responses to the questionnaire for the past year. Frighteningly, among service members with less than 10 years of service, 63% agree or strongly agree with question # 46: "I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government." Among new recruits almost 90% give the response: "If it's the law and they order me to do it I guess it's okay." Our federally controlled public schools have done their job.
Of those with more than 15 years of service, 87% replied "disagree" or "strongly disagree." Responses by members of the Special Forces Underground were unprintable; basically, there will not be many officers who give that order more than once.
The RESISTER has enclosed a copy of the Combat Arms Survey with this issue. As you read it pay particular attention to the qualifiers and their relation to recent articles in the official publications of the Department of Defense, the civilian media, and the policies of the federal government. *

Editorial Note The enclosed Combat Arms Survey is a true and accurate reproduction of the contents of the questionnaire. We altered the format to accommodate the The RESISTER's layout. THE EDITOR

COMBAT ARMS SURVEY
This questionnaire is to gather data concerning the attitudes of combat trained personnel with regards to nontraditional missions. All of your responses are confidential. Write your answers directly on the questionnaire form. In Part II, place an "X" in the space provided for your response.
Part I. Demographics
1. What service are you in?
2. What is your pay grade? (e.g. E-7, O-7)
3. What is your MOS code and description?
4. What is your highest level of education in years?
5. How many months did you serve in Operation Desert Storm/Desert Shield?
6. How many months did you serve in Somalia?
7. What state or country did you primarily reside in during childhood?
Part II. Attitudes
Do you feel that U.S. Combat troops should be used within the United States for any of the following missions?

8. Drug enforcement
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
9. Disaster relief (e.g. hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
10. Security at national events (e.g. Olympic Games, Super Bowl)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
11. Environmental disaster clean-up
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
12. Substitute teachers in public schools
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
13. Community assistance programs (e.g. landscaping, environmental clean-up, road repair, animal control)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
14. Federal and state prison guards
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
15. National emergency police force
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
16. Advisors to S.W.A.T. units, the FBI or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (B.A.T.F.)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
17. Border patrol (e.g. prevention of illegal aliens into U.S. territory)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
Do you feel that U.S. combat troops under U.S. command should be used in other countries for and of the following United Nations missions?
18. Drug enforcement
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
19. Disaster relief (e.g. hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
20. Environmental disaster clean-up
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
21. Peace keeping
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
22. Nation building (Reconstruct civil government, develop public school system, develop or improve public transportation system, etc.)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
23. Humanitarian relief (e.g. food and medical supplies, temporary housing, and clothing)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
Do you feel that U.S. combat troops should be used in other countries,under command of non-U.S. officers appointed by the United Nations for any ofthe following missions?
24. Drug enforcement
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
25. Disaster relief (e.g. hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
26. Environmental disaster clean-up
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
27. Peace keeping
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
28. Nation building (Reconstruct civil government, develop public school system, develop or improve public transportation system, etc.)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
29. Humanitarian relief (e.g. food and medical supplies, temporary housing, and clothing)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
30. Police action (e.g. Korea, Vietnam, but serving under non-U.S. officers)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
Consider the following statements:
31. The U.S. runs a field training exercise. U.N. combat troops should be allowed to serve in U.S. combat units during these exercises under U.S. command and control.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
32. The United Nations runs a field training exercise. U.S. combat troops under U.S. command and control should serve in U.N. combat units during these exercises.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
33. The United Nations runs a field training exercise. U.S. combat troops should serve under U.N. command and control in U.N. during these exercises.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
34. U.S. combat troops should participate in U.N. missions as long as the U.S. has full command and control.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
35. U.S. combat troops should participate in U.N. missions under United Nations command and control.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
36. U.S. combat troops should be commanded by U.N. officers and non-commissioned (NCOs) at battalion and company levels while performing U.N. missions.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
37. It would make no difference to me to have U.N. soldiers as members of my team. (e.g. fire team, squad, platoon)
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
38. It would make no difference to me to take orders from a U.N. company commander.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
39. I feel the President of the United States has the authority to pass his responsibilities as Commander-in-Chief to the U.N. Secretary General.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
40. I feel there is no conflict between my oath of office and serving as a U.N. soldier.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
41. I feel my unit's combat effectiveness would not be affected by performing humanitarian missions for the United Nations.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
42. I feel a designated unit of U.S. combat soldiers should be permanently assigned to the command and control of the United Nations.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
43. I would be willing to volunteer for assignment to a U.S. combat unit under a U.N. commander.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
44. I would like U.N. member countries, including the U.S., to the U.N. all the soldiers necessary to maintain world peace.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
45. I would swear to the following code:
"I am a United Nations fighting person. I serve in the forces which maintain world peace and every nation's way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
46. The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty (30) day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of citizen groups refuse to turn over their firearms.
Consider the following statement:
I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Strongly disagree Disagree Agree Strongly agree No opinion
*

End Note
Our civilian readers maybe wondering why the Combat Arms Survey was circulated so heavily within the Department of the Navy. The reason is simple; the Navy is not subject to USC Title 10 Posse Comitatus prohibitions against using federal military forces for domestic law enforcement. This includes the US Marine Corps.
Just thought you would like to know.
THE STAFF[Resistor, Ed.]

(The rest of this is all my comments, so I'm not posting them in Red):

In 1994, the Republican party took control of Congress from the Democrat party after FORTY PLUS years. Most Democrat party wonks cited gun control as a main reason why the change occurred.
Since then, the US Congress has had trouble passing ANY other gun control measures, and now with the recent Heller decision, it appears that pro-gun forces are poised to actually have a shot at repealing some of the Draconian gun control laws in effect.
Whether laws like the NFA, or GCA 1968, or the Brady Law will ever be repealed is somewhat doubtful, but the tide in favor of even more restrictive laws has definitely turned.

_________________________________________________________

The 1993 ATF Incident

I've told this story before, but in 1993 ATF agents visited every gun shop within about 100 miles of this area, copying names, addresses, what was purchased, etc., off the 4473's of anyone who bought an "assault rifle." The excuse was, that some of the guns from the Branch Davidian compound in Waco had found their way to our area. Yeah, right.

I can tell you from my own perspective that watching the Waco compound burn caused a lot of people to sober up. I'll leave it at that.

On top of this, the ATF went around contacting the people on the 4473's: for the purpose of "investigation" they claimed. Intimidation was a more accurate term. Since this is a rural area, some people could not be located just from their street address: this is an area where not every home is clearly marked, and not every street is paved or marked. ATF happily put arrest warrants out for anyone they couldn't find, apparently for having "lied" on the 4473. Local gun shops were abuzz with people who had been "contacted." They were apparently asked "Why did you buy that weapon?" "Do you still have it?" "How many assault rifles do you have?"

A local radio show featured a call-in segment on the incident. Their switchboard was lit up. One "contactee" claimed that he was pulled over for a routine traffic stop, only to have the officer tell him, "You're wanted by the ATF, Sir, you'll have to come with us." After sitting in an ATF interrogation room for hours, he was accused of lying on his 4473 because they went to the address and he didn't live there. "I moved," he explained. At which point the agents proclaimed, "Then you should have informed us." Note that there is NO law, and never has been, requiring a private citizen who owns firearms to notify ATF when they move.

The real purpose of the entire incident was never discovered, but you'd better believe that many, many gun owners in this area suddenly took up the hobby of "gardening at night."

This is just my humble opinion, but the paranoia of the 1990's helped to create the home-building craze: it gives the private citizen the opportunity to own an assault weapon with "no paperwork."

It's also why the authorities hate home building.
_______________________________________________________

Executive Orders

I should mention something about the so-called "executive orders" that were supposed to have been rampant in the 1990's. It seems like every few months, something like rifles, or ammo, or SOMETHING would just suddenly stop being imported after months or years of availability. Bulgarian SLR-95 and SA-93 AK's, Sellier & Bellot 7.62x39, Chinese ammo, parts for Chinese rifles...I could go on and on...all fell victim to supposed "executive orders" stopping any further importation.

I've read many knockdown dragout threads on many forums about this subject, but I think the general consensus is that the so-called "executive orders" are more of an urban legend. It's more likely the ATF or State Department, or whoever, simply applied an existing regulation to a new product. I have yet to see anyone post the actual text of an executive order that specifically stopped Bulgarian AK's from coming into the country, for example.

The fact that these sudden unannounced import bans happened habitually made it look like someone in Washington was banning things by proclamation whenever they felt like it.

Gun shops, too, could be accused of deliberately exaggerating the panic in order to charge premium prices.

Two dealers in particular were fond of jacking up the price of something just on the rumor that it was about to be banned.

____________________________________________________

Black Helicopters and Blue Helmets

I'll just make one mention of some of the tinfoil hat stuff because it's part of history, too.

Ruby Ridge and Waco, not to mention the L.A. riots, scared the crap out of a lot of people. Along with the usual "UN blue helmets make good aiming points" rhetoric, you got people SWEARING they were seeing silent, unmarked "black helicopters" or "UN road signs", or other indicators that we would be under martial law before the end of the 1990's. One urban legend is that the executive branch only displayed the US flag with gold fringe because that is the admiralty flag and that gave them the authority to rule without oversight or some such nonsense. I never did quite get the logic of that one.

The panic in the 1990's was real, but some of the justification clearly was not. I compare much of this to the hysteria surrounding the Orson Welles' broadcast of "War of the Worlds."

It is interesting to note, however, that I've never seen a UFO, but I have seen a silent, unmarked black helicopter.

Truth really is stranger than fiction.

_______________________________________________________

Ban Style Rifles

This is the Chinese MAK-90: the basic AK available to civilian shooters in the early 1990's; although the Clinton administration stopped them from coming into the country before the 1994 ban. Since foreign made assault rifles were banned from importation by George Herbert Walker Bush, the MAK-90 was the basic "rule beater" rifle from 1989-1994.

Sure, there were Hungarians, Maadis, and later Bulgarian AK's and Romanians, (and maybe others too), but in the dark days of 1989-1994, the MAK90 was the most available and affordable. Chances were, if you wanted a factory new AK, this rifle is what you got.

Milled and stamped receivers were available, but the stamped ones far outnumbered the milled ones.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8/ak47nut/mak90.jpg


This following are just some interesting things I remember; the internet is full of more detailed histories of the MAK90.

In the early 1990's:

1. It was illegal to "unban" the rifle. The rifles' receivers were deliberately made so that "unbanning" them was difficult if not impossible. A lot of people did it anyway. There was no cottage industry of "US made compliance parts" because people hadn't yet discovered that section 922(r) could be interpreted as a way to legally install some US-made parts and have the pistol grip. (Remember that only one "evil" part in addition to the hi-cap magazine was allowed on an assault weapon back then. ) A lot of people simply ignored the law and illegally unbanned the rifles anyway. Buyers were advised (and still are) to check the receiver to see if it was a genuine pre-ban rifle before buying.

2. A lot of gun dealers (at least in my experience) refused to sell the rifle and high capacity magazines at the same time. It was thought to be possibly illegal even to use high cap mags with the rifle. People were told to their face, "Just don't stick the thirty round mag in the gun if you don't know who's watching." The gun sold with five round magazines.

3. The "balsa wood" buttstock had a tendency to split. Replacement aftermarket polymer thumbhole stocks became available after a time, but some people were stuck with looking for second-hand stocks to replace their split ones for a while.

4. The Chinese rushed to import as many thumbhole stocked rifles into the country as possible before importation was cut off. That's one reason why some examples were obviously hastily assembled: third hole AK's with rivets to plug the auto sear hole, underfolder trunnioned receivers with hastily installed thumbhole stocks, etc. Some examples even had the full underfolder stock permanently installed in the folded position and a thumbhole stock installed.

If you have any pics of these "Frankenstein" MAK-90's: please post them!

There was such an interesting variety of "rule beater" AK's out there that I wish I had photographed some of the more gruesome "ban style" rifles.

______________________________________________

Zane Zackerly
THIS article was the equivalent of Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" to a lot of gun owners in the 1990's. Keep in mind that although the date says "October 1994", as is the practice with most magazines, the "October" issue hits the stands in mid summer. This editorial therefore came out JUST BEFORE the passage of the final version of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. When this editorial hit the newsstands, there was still a great deal of fear as to how extensive the ban would be, and what other legislation might follow it.

It is believed by some that this editorial was the primary inspiration for the novel "Unintended Consequences."

I present it without comment, for historical purposes only.

Enjoy:

http://www.totse.com/en/politics/ri...ms/gunedit.html

Editorial by Jim Shults
Modern Gun Magazine
October 1994

HG Publications, INC
9171 Wilshire Blvd.
STE. 300
Beverly Hills, CA 90210

Perhaps it was fate that caused me to call LFP's President last year
to see if he would like to do a military or gun magazine. It seemed
like bad timing to start a major new national and international gun
magazine at a time when the government is going socialist, and with
their need to confiscate guns to enable enforcement of the new order
already in progress, but in spite of all this, it has worked out very
well. If I didn't have this job, I would not have learned of the
following information, which I personally related to the offices of
several U. S. senators and representatives

Some of this information was based upon an anonymous letter I got from
a reader about six months ago--a letter, long since destroyed, but one
that lingers on in my memory, written by a person I felt had an
extensive military background. In my calls to the senators, I mixed in
some firearm-industry sales information as well as what I've been
hearing from around the country.

Well, if I can call U.S. senators Ben Nighthorse Campbell (D-Colo.),
Hank Brown (R-Colo.), Robert Dole, Senate minority leader (R-Kan.),
Senate majority leader George Mitchell (D-Maine) and House minority
leader Bob Michel (R-III.), and Modern Gun special pro-jects editor
Robin Heid can inform blithering idiot Pat Schroeder's (D-Co.) aide in
a face-to-face meeting at Pat's Denver office, then I can sure tell
you folks. In fact, you might want to send a copy of this editorial to
your elected officials, because very few, if any, have considered what
follows.

THE CALL BEGINS

You folks (politicians) do not really understand what is going to
happen when this antigun legislation goes into effect; let me first
tell you about the gun industry. Ever since October, 1993 gun sales of
all types have grown so quickly that the factories--all of them--are
anywhere from 16,000 guns back-ordered for a small specialty company
to 178,000 for one major company. (I told them the names of these,
plus several others that have back-orders in the 45,000 to 56,000
range due to buyer demand) I told them that it was even getting
difficult to quickly get guns for articles, and that getting high
capacity rifle and pistol magazines was next to impossible,
except for the rare supply of military surplus at gun shows.

I related that many makers of primers and ammunition are backordered
until June of 1995, and that major wholesale distributors of ammunition
are now scrounging for any 9mm, .45 ACP, 5.56mm, 7.62mm NATO, 7.62 x
39mm .38/.357 and .30 06 ammo that they can get; I told of the small
foreign-bullet manufacturer who went to the SHOT show to try to sell 5
million 9mm bullets and came out after one day with orders for 97
million; that the sales of certain types of powder for reloading are
beyond belief, and making it nearly impossible for even major ammo
makers to turn out product.

Then I asked the aides: Do you think that the people who are buying
this stuff in these quantities are doing so to prepare for when these
socialist laws go into effect, so that they can turn this stuff in?
The aides gave me the answer: no!

I then told them that when this "government" makes things like
magazines, springs, bayonet lugs, pistol grips, etc., federally
illegal, a person may as well go out and get a machine gun or
something even more deadly; after all, a federal crime is a federal
crime, and a felony is a felony. If our government is going to
artificially create nearly 40 million citizen/criminals, a
significant percentage will get real serious about their new "job
title." Again, the aides agreed.

Who will these new criminals be? Well, they won't be some gang-banger
dirtbag who never finished the fifth grade, has no job, does drive-by-
shootings, holds up liquor stores and sells crack. This new federal
criminal will consist of men who are combat and military veterans from
WWII, Korea, the Dominican Republic, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Saudi,
and special operations forces from around the world. Many of these
veterans really know how to shoot, move and communicate, and have
killed. Men who are no longer afraid of hostile artillery and are
hardly intimidated by a BATF agent in a ninja outfit!

The new criminal class will be made up of men, women and their
children, who are educated, run businesses or make businesses work,
and have raised or are raising families. People who pay taxes and
currently make this country work. In other words, a serious bunch of
potentially real mean, smart cookies who can make things happen. The
military may oppose them, but as the Russian experience taught, many
"kids" don't join the military to kill fellow citizens.

Now the aforementioned citizen criminal class will eliminate a lot of
people, and the people terminated, according to this letter, will
include city, state and national politicians, local and regional media
personalities (the propaganda arm), all forms of law enforcement
(drive-up assassinations while they are in their cars) and just
common, everyday federal employees.

The chilling part of the letter also said that the families,
neighbors, friends and coworkers, and the children and wives of these
people, would be under assault so as to cut off any moral and real
support. His scenario is similar to the famous Phoenix Program in
Vietnam, which found that by attacking the infrastructure and its
supporters, change can be forced--or else! And who wants to be the
next person (target) to lead, collect guns or taxes, or sell the party
propaganda at a network affiliate or newspaper, in any capacity, from
secretary to reporter, camera operator, or, especially, announcer or
columnist? Naturally, this activity would result in more government
controls, which would meet with more citizen resistance, and all of
this could ultimately lead to all-out civil war. Yes. I know I am
pushing the envelope of supposition, but this is how civil wars start.

I related to the senatorial aides that less than 2% of guns were
declared after California passed their state law against semiauto
rifles, and that less than 0.2% of the "semis" were declared after
Denver passed their gun law. This means tens of millions nationwide
will not comply, creating the world's largest "criminal" class of
people, all of which will fight, and fight hard, to turn things
around. While I did not relate the following excerpt, it is quite
possibly our future.

From the book Atlas Shrugged, written in 1930 by Ayn Rand, I quote:
"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on
criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible
for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law
abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the
kinds of laws that can be neither observed nor enforced nor
objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers- and
then you can cash in on the guilt."

I continued by telling them that they knew that gun control had
nothing to do with crime. and everything to do with control of the
citizenry. I asked them to work hard to communicate this to their
contemporaries in Congress: They are about to create a nation of
lawbreakers.

They took this to heart, and did not receive this as a threat hell, I
told them who I was, etc. In fact I was referred to Campbell directly
by his aide's Colorado State Representative. l will tell you folks,
for the first time in my life, this particular government has me
scared out of my wits for my personal and national security, and fear
held by millions of Americans does not promote polite behavior.

I really don't think that the politicians and media people at all
levels know what they are creating, because a "direct price" has not
yet been extracted from them for their actions. All of the senators'
aides I talked with were surprised at the industry numbers and data,
and especially surprised at the concept of a huge, smart and highly
experienced criminal class that they are about to create. In fact, one
flat told me he had never thought of that, and he was the particular
senator's gun legislation aide.

I informed them that, to a huge percentage of our population, guns are
not just a thing they will do without. To many in this country the
military gun is a very real symbol of freedom. A symbol of the meaning
of our original Constitution, of the legacy of millions of fallen
brothers-in-arms over the last 250 years. I tried to communicate to
them that, to many people, guns are nearly a religion.

This concept is something many big-city Eastern or high-profile,
heavily insulated and privately guarded, millionaire political-elitist
types cannot understand. I told them that everyone knows any
registration will lead to punitive taxation or outright confiscation
down the road. After answering their questions, the calls were
concluded.

A couple of months ago I struck up a conversation with some guy at a
gun show. Eventually, I told him of the letter I received. He said
examples like the Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents would serve to control
the population to some extent. However, he said illegal-gun arrests
would operate like drug busts. A friend, ex-wife, or paid informer
would simply target old Joe's house as having "illegal guns," etc.
Nighttime and odd-hour SWAT-type raids would result.

He informed me that if you have these kinds of "illegal" items, you
shouldn't tell people, show them, or fire them; you either put them to
preemptive use or you'd better surrender them and accept whatever your
government has in store for you. Hiding them in your home and then
having a fire--which is always investigated by law enforcement--will
result in your arrest, and burying guns in the hills is just plain
silly, because, according to him, now is the time to fight, not later.
He used the example of what would have happened to WWII if, in the
early 1930s, German citizens would have taken action to stop an
out-of-control government and propaganda machine. This old boy was
dead serious; he knew combat and had survived bayonet and hand-to-hand
fighting in Korea.

The ability to stop the insanity is in the hands of Congress and their
supporters in the media. Time is short. Citizens are very angry and
prepared. I'll tell you this, I sure as hell would not want to be in
any form of law enforcement and have to enforce this craziness. Eighty
thousand dollars a year is not enough pay when you have created one
federal criminal out of every four adults in an entire country.

Zane Zackerly
Some more gun-related tidbits:

1. Purchasers of Chinese SKS rifles in the early 1990's originally were able to purchase the guns with bayonets still attached and functional. SKS's were not considered "assault weapons" and therefore not subject to the 1989 import ban imposed by the first George Bush presidency. Later, ATF decided that it was illegal to have the bayonet on a Chinese SKS, because the rifle is still in production in China. Huh? There was and is some speculation that there was no such thing as "grandfathered" rifles with regard to the bayonet, and even if you purchased a Chinese SKS in good faith with the bayonet attached, it might be considered contraband if you didn't know to remove the bayonet later. In contrast, SKS rifles from other countries such as Russia were allowed to have the bayonet because they qualified as Curios & Relics, whereas the Chinese rifles did not.

2. Owners who purchased drum-fed shotguns in good faith, such as the Striker, woke up one day to find their weapons re-classifed as "destructive devices" with a very short amnesty period to register them without paying the tax and without risking prosecution. Owners who didn't "get the memo" ended up owning illegal weapons without knowing it.

3. Even with the ban on high capacity magazines, there always seemed to be an ample supply for weapons like the AK47. Speculation was that importers were allowed to keep importing hi-cap mags as long as they were not technically "manufactured" after the ban date. I have long suspected that other manufacturers of high capacity magazines had their lights on at night making "pre-ban" magazines.

4. Although highly sporterized former assault rifles were still legal to import after the 1989 ban, there was the fear that eventually the Feds would get around to closing ALL the loopholes and there would be no more AK47's imported, even in neutered configurations. Witness how even sporterized Chinese AK's were no longer allowed into the US after a time although they met the technical definition of "sporting use" for a former assault rifle. Even after the 1994 ban, thumbhole stocked AK's meeting the legal shopping list of features still came into the country, at least until executive fiat eventually stopped them. The Bulgarian SLR95 is a prime example. This led to Gordon Technologies, Arsenal USA, and even Arsenal of Bulgaria moving toward the ultimate goal of an "All American-made AK47." As a result of the research done in this area, 922(r) compliance parts began to be manufactured by various makers, and the thumbhole stocked Frankenstein creations eventually gave way to pistol-gripped variants that were legal because of US-made parts. The cheap and available 922(r) compliant Maadis and Romanian AK's eventually made the "All American AK" concept less appealing and "American made" AK's were still made mostly from foreign-made parts. Meanwhile, cottage industries popped up to take advantage of these US-made parts and turn parts kits into legal complete rifles.

5. This is just anecdotal, but along with the runs on guns, ammo, and magazines during the 1990's, I understand that in some parts of the country there were real shortages of 8" schedule 40 PVC tubing. Coincidentally or not, in this age just before the internet took off, several publications circulated showing people how to build underground "hides" from PVC tubing.

crimsomecraze
Good read.

WolfsburgBob
HELLO "ZZ",

How bad the laws the got? ...As apposed to how bad they are gonna be?

Gonna get MUCH worse.

SCROTUS recently voted 5-4 to uphold our given Constitutional Rights. The recent ruling by SCOTUS has been hailed as a victory for Conservatives, Constitutionalists, and for gun owners.

It was much more than that.

It was an ear splitting and gut wrenching wake-up call to the fact that the anti-gun juggernaut in this country has gained enough support that almost half of the Supreme Court Justices cannot read or merely wish to ignore our given Constitutional Rights.

Their anti-gun law juggernaut has been detoured. Not stopped, merely detoured.

Wealthy and politically powerful people in this country do not want the lower classes to own guns. Period.



But alas, I am getting old. At 55 years of age I dont worry much about what will happen to the Second Ammendment,...I worry about what THEY are gonna do with the OTHER TWENTY-SIX!

The War has only begun.

:sad_small



PS,..I dumped my FFL license in 1993. I recognized the fact that the laws were getting so goofy that the courts and the BATF's lawyers would have fits trying to understand them. Interpretation means a "close call"!

Zane Zackerly
This is a measure of what we would come up against.
Expect no quarter.
Expect to be gunned down like a dog or to spend a significant part of your life being re-educated in a Federal Institution of some kind.



Your post reminded me of something. Rumors were rampant that the Feds were constructing detention centers (read: concentration camps) in the middle of the deserts to put the people who "resisted" the gun confiscation, New World Order, or whateveryawannacallit. I talked to a government clerk who supposedly filled a purchase order for so many thousand sheets, mattresses, pillows, and blankets to be sent to classified locations where he "swears we don't have any installations."

I talked to a construction contractor who claims to have built "interrogation rooms" for the BLM. Bureau of Land Management needs interrogation rooms? He also said they talked openly of their new "tactical teams."

mitchstoner
This is a very timely and sobering topic. Ruby Ridge and Waco and various less publicized and less deadly events convinced a lot of us that the ATF was totally out of control. It looked like the DOJ and Congress weren't far behind in efforts to piss on the 2nd Amendment, probably the whole Constitution. Sarah Brady and her bunch obviously had a lot more access in Washington then we did. Many of us thought it wasn't long before a bunch of firearms owners were declared outlaws.

Something you haven't touched on at all--at the same time, large numbers of Christians of the more conservative and fundamentalist varieties also began to believe they were being targeted. A lot of them were reading novels like the "Left Behind" series, which depicts the end of world history as Satan's AntiChrist brings all the world under one government. To many Christians, talk of the black helicopters and U.N. forces on American soil, or U.S.troops under U.N. control, seemed like the beginning of a One World Government. Some believed it was the Christians who would be in the secret internment camps, rather than the gun owners.

I don't think our current situation is any safer for gun owners or the Constitution than what was happening in the '90s. It's like the threat of nuclear war in the '50s: At first it was terrifying, but people got used to it and stopped thinking about it. But the danger was still very real.

Rokkyt
Flagged for subscription

drjarhead
This is a very timely and sobering topic. Ruby Ridge and Waco and various less publicized and less deadly events convinced a lot of us that the ATF was totally out of control. It looked like the DOJ and Congress weren't far behind in efforts to piss on the 2nd Amendment, probably the whole Constitution. Sarah Brady and her bunch obviously had a lot more access in Washington then we did. Many of us thought it wasn't long before a bunch of firearms owners were declared outlaws.

Something you haven't touched on at all--at the same time, large numbers of Christians of the more conservative and fundamentalist varieties also began to believe they were being targeted. A lot of them were reading novels like the "Left Behind" series, which depicts the end of world history as Satan's AntiChrist brings all the world under one government. To many Christians, talk of the black helicopters and U.N. forces on American soil, or U.S.troops under U.N. control, seemed like the beginning of a One World Government. Some believed it was the Christians who would be in the secret internment camps, rather than the gun owners.

I don't think our current situation is any safer for gun owners or the Constitution than what was happening in the '90s. It's like the threat of nuclear war in the '50s: At first it was terrifying, but people got used to it and stopped thinking about it. But the danger was still very real.

All too true.
Not all that much has changed and things would likely be far worse if not for the internet. It conected us in ways we never could have been before. We realized there were others out there just like us and people were not as afraid to speak out and voice their opposition to what was going on. What is going on.

Prior to that we were getting lambasted by the left wing propaganda machine that is the mainstream media.

The end result is that we have achieved some minor gains.
Also, the nation is more polarized than ever.
And that last sentence is what, most of all, is a crystal ball into our future.

mitchstoner
Yep, with the internet we hear a lot more viewpoints, not just the officially sanctioned ones.

But I keep having this nagging feeling--someday will I turn on the computer and for some reason be unable to log onto AKFiles. or gunco. or falfiles...

Or maybe I will log on and it will look like normal, but for some reason, drjarhead will sound like Dr. Phil, mandy will seem more like Oprah, and bobehud will come across like Mr. Rogers...

And I will realize, "THEY" have taken over. and then I will see a new post from mitchstoner advising that I have learned a new method of grinding AK stocks into mulch for my flower beds. And as I stare at the monitor in disbelief, my doorbell will ring, and "surprise, mr. stoner, you have won an all-expense-paid trip to Club Fed, if you will please turn around and put your hands behind your back."

dang, I brought home a six pack of Mich Amber Bock. anybody like that stuff? I thought the first sip tasted good, and now I'm thinking, yuck.

Joey2tone
Mmmmmm, liquid bread! My 2 favorite beers are Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse and Paulaner Hefe-Weisse. I remember hearing talk about the GCA in '86..... freshman in HS. I wish I was a bit wiser then as well as now!!!!

drjarhead
Yep, with the internet we hear a lot more viewpoints, not just the officially sanctioned ones.

But I keep having this nagging feeling--someday will I turn on the computer and for some reason be unable to log onto AKFiles. or gunco. or falfiles...

More likely that before that happens there'll be a knock at your door. You'll go answer it....

Or maybe I will log on and it will look like normal, but for some reason, drjarhead will sound like Dr. Phil


Not gonna happen. ;)

mitchstoner
No, man, it won't be you, it will be the gov't spook posting as you.

Re: the military being willing to turn their guns towards U.S. citizens. There are growing rumblings of discontent in the U.S. military towards the attitude of both U.S. civilians and the U.S. government. PARTICULARLY in those who have done multiple tours in Iraq/Afghanistan. In general, there is a feeling among these combat vets that we are damned unworthy of their valor and sacrifice. The U.S. military is rapidly moving towards a general attitude that they are the cream of present day America, and if we are uncaring about the effort they put forth, there are others in the world who place much higher value on their talents. Expect to see growing numbers of former American troops in the ranks of world-class mercenaries. It is no stretch at all to see some of them throwing their lot with the U.N. to effect a much needed cleansing, in their eyes, of America. It is also no stretch at all to see U.S. trained and Iraq/Afghanistan experienced troops with the moxie to contest any issue, anywhere, anytime, in today's world.

Two of those Amber Bocks taste a bit better than one. Bedtime, gentlemen; 5:00 a.m. comes too fuggin' early.

mitchstoner
The crux of the matter:

Posted by Akron Armory: "Wealthy and politically powerful people in this country do not want the lower classes to own guns. Period."

Zane Zackerly
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8/ak47nut/AKPHOTOS14/zlibertywithak.jpg

drjarhead
No, man, it won't be you, it will be the gov't spook posting as you.

I know what you meant. ;)

Re: the military being willing to turn their guns towards U.S. citizens. There are growing rumblings of discontent in the U.S. military towards the attitude of both U.S. civilians and the U.S. government. PARTICULARLY in those who have done multiple tours in Iraq/Afghanistan. In general, there is a feeling among these combat vets that we are damned unworthy of their valor and sacrifice. The U.S. military is rapidly moving towards a general attitude that they are the cream of present day America, and if we are uncaring about the effort they put forth, there are others in the world who place much higher value on their talents. Expect to see growing numbers of former American troops in the ranks of world-class mercenaries. It is no stretch at all to see some of them throwing their lot with the U.N. to effect a much needed cleansing, in their eyes, of America. It is also no stretch at all to see U.S. trained and Iraq/Afghanistan experienced troops with the moxie to contest any issue, anywhere, anytime, in today's world.

Or maybe they'd join us when the time comes.

I understand where you're coming from.
I was in from 76-80--post Viet Nam era and people treated servicemen like shit back then.
The war in the ME is almost a footnote of daily life anymore though. No one really gives a shit and everyone goes about their lives as if there is nothing going on. Where's the sacrifice? Where's the national sense of purpose?
We can't be bothered and if we need money we just print more. Unbelievable.

drjarhead
The crux of the matter:

Posted by Akron Armory: "Wealthy and politically powerful people in this country do not want the lower classes to own guns. Period."

Yeah, that was a great line.

Zane Zackerly
I understand that in anticipation of the reaction to a potential Democrat anti-gun election win (President, Senate, House of Representatives) in 2008, that the JBT's are already watching the gun boards for signs of "fomenting rebellion."

It's starting to look like 1992 all over again.

Fortis
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8/ak47nut/AKPHOTOS14/zlibertywithak.jpg
Zane, that`s a pretty cool picture of the Statue of Liberty w/ an AK. Kind of speaks to my heart. Would look even better poster sized in a frame. Where did you find it? Thanks.

Zane Zackerly
I googled it. I added the AK in Paint.NET

subvet653
Howdy -

No one has commented on the actual gun confiscation that occurred in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. This isn't just paranoia, they really are out to get us! And US troops will be used without prejudice.

Regards - Ed

sv_libertarian
Read this...
http://www.gunowners.org/no06.htm

Bush made future NOLA style confiscations illegal either by federal forces, or agencies receiving federal funds.

Tak
I understand that in anticipation of the reaction to a potential Democrat anti-gun election win (President, Senate, House of Representatives) in 2008, that the JBT's are already watching the gun boards for signs of "fomenting rebellion."

It's starting to look like 1992 all over again.

If they're looking for signs, they ought to be really effing scared right now, and all the more if they start trying to eff around with our RIGHTS again.

Zane Zackerly
Just by accident, I ran across a corroborating post about the ATF incident while searching for something else:

http://www.skepticfiles.org/waco/batfchek.htm

Interesting article in this week's (9/2) Las Cruces Bulletin. BATF agents
entered gun stores and copied the names of everyone who purchased a
gun in the last 6 months. They then have harrassed people who are on
this list: "One caller [to the Heart to Heart radio show] said he had
been stopped for a minor traffic violation and when the police officer
ran a routine computer check, was told that a warrant had been issued
for his arrest. Apparently, BATF had filed for the warrant because he
had moved from the address he lived at when he purchased the gun and
was not there when the agents tried to confirm the information found
on dealer records."

The BATF has been giving different stories to different gun shop
owners as to why they have been doing this: "The 'gun smuggling' story
was told to some; others were told the bureau was doing this 'to
prevent another Waco' (!) or as part of a criminal investigation.
Still other teams reportedly said they didn't know why they were
taking down the information."

Interestingly enough, the BATF p.r. person Franceska Perot stated when
asked about agents copying down every name "That's not my
understanding of what they were supposed to be doing."

If you want a copy of the paper (I have no afillation with them), call
(505) 524-8061. To complain to the BATF (Houston office) call
(713)449-2073.

Zane Zackerly
MORE:



http://www.mega.nu:8080/batf/croaker/individ.html#FRANKLINARMS


Abuses of the BATF
Franklin Arms (Las Cruces, New Mexico)
September 10, 1993
Dear Friends,
My name is Cindy Pollock. In July of this year I was helping out at Franklin Arms when two agents of the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) came in to inspect the store's BATF 4473 forms. This is not unusual, except that they said they would be here on Monday, July 19th at 10:00 am, but they showed up unannounced on Wednesday afternoon, July 14th.
THEY STARTED COPYING DOWN THE NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF EVERYONE WHO PURCHASED A FIREARM AT FRANKLIN ARMS SINCE JULY 16TH, 1991; THEY DIDN'T FINISH UNTIL FRIDAY, JULY 16TH.
[Emphasis in the original document]
I became very upset when they started copying the information from these forms. I said that I am an NRA Live Member, and this looks like firearms registration to me. The agent's response was,"No, [they] were just taking a survey of firearms sold along the border states." I asked what happens when the survey is over, will these names be taken out of the computer? No answer!
Since I was not on the firearms license and was just a private citizen I felt completely helpless. I had purchased firearms at Franklin Arms over the past two years, and now information concerning these arms would be in a computer somewhere. Who knows who would have access to this information? Look what happened to the IRS records in Atlanta, which were examined by unauthorized personnel!
I am a retired school teacher and an avid shooter. I have enjoyed shooting since I was twelve. I feel that my right to privacy has been violated. I am not a criminal! Why am I being treated like one?
I am now back at Franklin Arms full time and hope to help prevent this from happening again. If you purchased a firearm in the past two years, your BATF 4473 forms were also copied. Let your congressman know how you feel. DON'T SIT BACK AND DO NOTHING.
Who knows what's next?
Sincerely,
Cindy Pollack.


(Franklin Arms has been out of business since the late 1990’s).

mace2364
Here is a link to a PDF file containing the text of H.R. 3932 "Gun Violence Protection Act of 1994" as mentioned in the above thread.

http://bulk.resource.org/gpo.gov/bills/103/h3932ih.txt.pdf




And here is a link to the bill from the Library of Congress



http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c103:H.R.3932: