Chinese Type 53 any good????

Just looking for opinions on this gun. I see they can be had reasonably and was wondering what you folks think!!!

Thanks

Greg

T53 Chines type Mosin Nagants are good rifles. If you are speaking of the $35 Omega Weapons System rifles they are pretty rough. Most report shootable condition but as far as a specimen of a Model 44 a Russian refurb in the $79 range is probably a better choice. Good to Very Good Chinese type 53 rifles are in the $100 to $200 range.

Yes I was looking at them from Omega. How rough?? Something I could put an ATI stock on and use as a shooter????

Greg

I paid 40 for one a gun show a few years back, it was definately a beater. Ive seen alot more rough ones than nice ones and the nice ones are pretty expensive as mosins go.

Mine was pitted real bad and wood was almost rotten, like someone found it a lake or something.

Havent shot it so dunno how it shoots.

I actually put the ATI stock on that T53 cause the wood was so bad, and blasted and parkerized the metal and still looks like crap, but better than before.

The T53

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb253/cobraykid/P1010861.jpg


The family

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb253/cobraykid/P1010860.jpg


And the bottom one is the T53 with the wood

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb253/cobraykid/P1010859.jpg

That picture above is what all three of my T53s look like. The bores are worn, and they shoot about 6MOA. As a collectors' item they're worth buying. As a shooter they're terrible. By a good M44 from Classic Arms or AIM. You'll b=e happier with their product.

Accuracy on the Chinese T-53 can be very good. Your mileage may vary. I bought this one for parts. Essentially I bought a bolt head and extractor and they through in a fully functioning accurate rifle including cleaning rod. I'm actually going to buy another one for parts.

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/T53/t53rangeiia.jpg

I wouldn't count on a T53 being able to put 12 of 15 rounds on the paper like the above target at 100 yards. Cleaning doesn't seen to have been part of the requirements for a Chinese soldier's training.

Also at least some of the arms out of China were once buried!! The Chinese did not like to store surplus, as I guess they did not want the commoners to get any ideas about using these on their overloards, so they dug pits and buried such arms. Later when they found out these could be sold for profit outside China they dug these up. I know this sounds nuts but a friend of mine that did import work in the early 1990's said he saw this with his own eyes.

I had a couple years ago when they were first imported. Bought them at Woolworths. They were surprisingly very accurate.

A guy told me years ago that the reason so many have cracked and broken stocks is that some of the smaller shooters would place the butts against trees to fire them. I think it might be the wood they used to make them though.

I wouldn't count on a T53 being able to put 12 of 15 rounds on the paper like the above target at 100 yards. Cleaning doesn't seen to have been part of the requirements for a Chinese soldier's training.


I agree that I got a nice one with a good bore. I have heard that others have gotten good bores on rifles that look like they were dragged out of the cat's arse. The other one I got is a little rougher. I have not cleaned it up yet. So I don't know if it is parts or another shooter.

all of my 35$ t53's have good bores... little finish left, and beat wood, but good bores.

the T53 has the BEST Mosin trigger, second only to maybe a finn. the T53 trigger is a clean break as opposed to soviet and E Europe sloppy pulls

Also at least some of the arms out of China were once buried!! The Chinese did not like to store surplus, as I guess they did not want the commoners to get any ideas about using these on their overloards, so they dug pits and buried such arms. Later when they found out these could be sold for profit outside China they dug these up. I know this sounds nuts but a friend of mine that did import work in the early 1990's said he saw this with his own eyes.


ehhh. im willing to bet this is the same kind of story as "these are the last of the M44's" that ran rampant many years ago.


the chinese certainly didnt give a rats ass about the surplus, but i doubt they would bury them. as far as i know they were collected up, thrown (literally) into trucks, then bound together with wire, then stacked like cord wood. and waited in storage for a long time.

Hoppy, not that I doubt it but I'd like to hear about the documentation on this claim. It would certainly track with my experiences with T53s. The stocks look like they were bound up with barbed wire frankly. Also all five of the T53's I got had badly worn bores, so either I've been extraordinarily unlucky or you guys have been extraordinarily lucky. I can't tell which.

ehhh. im willing to bet this is the same kind of story as "these are the last of the M44's" that ran rampant many years ago.


the chinese certainly didnt give a rats ass about the surplus, but i doubt they would bury them. as far as i know they were collected up, thrown (literally) into trucks, then bound together with wire, then stacked like cord wood. and waited in storage for a long time.

If you say so. The person that told me this was the buyer for Navy Army - who brought these into the country. I will take his word for it.

I can state when I was in South America doing import work I saw M1 carbines stored under tarps that were outside. The carbines were ruined as they had been sitting there for 20 years.

I had a couple years ago when they were first imported. Bought them at Woolworths. They were surprisingly very accurate.
Finally someone other than myself had a Woolworths.My Grandma left me at the gun counter when she was shopping. I was really young but the Veteran that worked there didnt mind.He was really cool.If the gun saw service in WWII or before they sold it there.This was back in the dark ages, the early seventies.Memories, Jim

Jim - We had these in TN as well. Those along with Rose's Department Stores were havens.

Ahh - the days when you could buy guns at department stores. I bought my first two guns - a Roehm 22 revolver and a Mossburg pump shotgun from the local grocery store. I remember it - I was 12, and I'd worked all summer doing carpentry for my dad, to save enough to buy them. I still have the little .22, but back when I couldn't afford food I had to sell the 12-gauge. Boy! Do I miss that gun. These days there's still 1 hardware store here that sells guns, and I patronize them as much as I can.

Yes those were the days. One reason you can find so many of the Finnish Mosin Nagants in the south at gunshows, pawnshops,and the like is due to the old Rose's. They had the Finns in good numbers and now are being sold off to the pawn shops or walking into shows.

BTW
This article is a bit dated now - as I need to update it - but it might assist

http://mosinnagant.net/global%20mosin%20nagants/Chinese-T53Carbine.asp

Thanks Gunboards. That article was enlightening. The T53 is not well documented that I know of, so the information you shared is going to make up the bulk of what most of us know about the rifle. I have two T53s, personally, and they really can just barely be called, "rifles". While I may buy others in the future it's only because of their ridiculously low price.

what is this, "omega" you speak of?

Omega Weapons Systems (http://www.omega-weapons-systems.com) is run by one guy who's a bit older than the rest of us, and he's one of the few people who can import masses of rifles into the US. He is reputed to have containers out in the desert full of rifles that he has not opened for years. Right now he's trying to move a butt-load of really bad-condition Chinese Mosin Nagants at $39 apiece. He doesn't do much sorting from what I've heard, but the four I bought from him all were in terrible shape.

His site now says they're $55 each.

How did yours clean up?

Are they safe to shoot?
His site now says they're $55 each.

How did your clean up?

Were they safe to shoot?

Yep I was just looking the other day and thought I would pick a couple up at the lower price. I have one that shoots well and the other became a donor rifle for parts. I'm not sure if I would bite at the 55 dollar price.

I cut many many pallets "open" as we unloaded em from the container units, they were stored in caves in China AFTER they had been collected, these "caves" are like huge warehouses, the T-53s were indeed collected up from villages (Brent, if I remember his GB user ID I'll get it to ya, there is or was on the old site a member who wrote the book on the history of these rifles,[in chinese unfortunatly...] he visited us many times to get pictures as they were unloaded state side) trucks were sent into the villages where the SKS rifles were issued to the guard and all T-53s collected. I stood in onea these caves larger than an aircraft hanger full from floor to ceiling of mausers, T-53s, Thompsons, C-96s etc... the rifles were bundled 10 per then wrapped with bailing wire which was tornoquited tight with a stick (this is why so many stocks are cut into and all have deep vertical impressions) each pallet was stacked with 20 of these bundles in layers one layer going one way and the next across it they then tied more bailing wire to secure the stacks then turniqueted the wite tight and tied the stick in place........ the wires were so tight when we cut em ya hadda be careful it didn't snap back into your face...... most of the really bad plain busted stocks got used as fire wood that winter to heat the patio behind the Omega shop were the rifles were sorted and hung in racks vertically in another container unit at the rear of the yard the nicer unissued (still beat up wood) T-53s went inside into racks in the warehouse the actions from the junked guns were stripped for parts
Most of them stayed in that container unit for almost 15 years a few being sold here and there at shows pretty much forgotten until a few years ago when I dropped in to visit my old friend and rediscovered em... took a few home and cleaned em up then posted pics on gunboards.com and told folks were to find em..... they started flying out the door, I no longer have the pics of the pallets (old film camera pics) as the containers were opened, but no there was no burying of any T-53s they were simply not treated very nice as they were considered obsolete, I do have pics of the Chinese mauusers however someplace which were shipped the same way... when I get time I'll find em, there used to be a ton of T-53 pics on gunboards I posted back then before vendors through a hissy fit bout me tellin folks were to get em cheap.... some of those pics were scans of the old film camera pics showing the rifles wired to pallets so Brent I got no clue were your buddy would come up with them being burired.......... it was once very common knowledge on GB as everyone got to checkout the pics of how these rifles ended up in such condition.......

the white stock on the end that looks so good is euw wood it was one of a dozen he experimented with boiling for 3 minutes then bleached then mounted an action into while it dried slowly.... none had any ill effects and that one has sat there for about 9+ years as he had no time to finish it etc.... all it needed was amber shellac and one of the unissued actions to be a perfect T-53


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/dstorm1911/Gun%20pics/DSC02948.jpg
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/dstorm1911/Gun%20pics/100_1694.jpg

My second Omega T-53 got a good cleaning last night. Even after scrubbing the bore was still dark with promising rifling. I decided a run to the range and some hot bench cleaning was in order.

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/T53/T53_2/t53_no2.jpg


http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/T53/T53_2/t53_no2_2.jpg

She is a rough looking gal and I was hoping for minute of berm accuracy. Below is the picture of the first 5 and I forgot to extend the bayonet. :( Point of aim was lower left orange dot (This is a 4 inch diameter target). Ugh is all that can be said. All Shooting was done at 50 yards using light ball surplus ammo.

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/T53/T53_2/t53_no2_firstshot_bayo_foleded.jpg

After the first shot I did a cleaning at the bench and extended the bayonet. I thought this was bunk when I first heard that this was an issue with these carbines due to barrel harmonics but it turns out to be more than a myth on the rifles I have used.
http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/T53/T53_2/t53_no2_secondshot_bayo_extended1.jpg

Once again a cleaning at the bench, reload and fire away. By the fourth and fifth volley, the rifle was starting show more than minute of berm accuracy. I think this maybe a fun shooter with hand loads at this point. The final few 5 shot volleys shows me that this could be a game getter even using surplus.

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/T53/T53_2/t53_no2_fourthvolley_bayo_extended.jpg

The final 20 shots I just had some fun with more than good enough for combat results.

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/T53/T53_2/t53_no2_sixthbarrage_bayo_extended.jpg

My thoughts are that this is an ok rifle for $50 shipped to the house. I am using a loaner bolt from my first T-53 because the bolt that came with this rifle will just close on my no-go gauge. It would probably pass a field gauge, but I don't have one of those. The donor bolt passed the headspace and pin protrusion had already been checked so I was good on that account. I will probably see if I can't find a tighter bolt head because field safe headspace is hard on brass from a reloading perspective.

get some heavy ball ammo, these tend to favor it over light ball, I see ya got onea the original sling swivels as well, the Chinese cut all the slings for some reason we never could figure out, they used anything from phone cord to a light weight tan web with single flat buckle at the top and stitched to the wire loop at the bottom...... never saw a single T-53 with leather dog collar Soviet style slings, always the heavy wire bent into a loop and the flat webbing or phone wire or rope (one end is flattened and pushed through the slot then a knot tied in it sometimes the end was folded over and wrapped with lighter string instead of tieing a knot in it) below are some pics of a chicom mauser with the "correct" sling for the T-53 as used by the Chinese except it had two flat buckles..... it was the only surviving sling outa 4700 of those mausers...... so I snagged it ;) its a cotton webing a lil under 1/8" thick by 1 1/8" wide

and yes thats a bullet scar down the side of the stock, the interesting part...... the bullet struck from the rear as the shooter was aiming............ part of the bullet was sheared by the buttplate and is embedded in the stock still.......it tested positive for blood proteins

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/dstorm1911/Gun%20pics/DSC02852.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk268/dstorm1911/Gun%20pics/DSC02858.jpg

dstorm

Thanks for the tip on the heavy ball. I'm about completely exhausted on 7.62 x 54 surplus ammo. Exactly 30 rounds left on strippers. I am going shooting with my daughter tomorrow she is taking her ruger 10/22 and I'm taking this T53 and an AKM.

I will press up another 20 rounds or so for the T53 using hornady .312 160 grains bullets over 45 grains of Varget. This has worked well in other MN carbines. I will let you know how she does tomorrow. Still getting a good bit of fouling kicking up as I continue to shoot and clean. I think this is normal for the T53s. I am hoping after a couple of range sessions that the bore is clean of copper fouling as I want to use it for cast lead in the future.

Also that is a great battle axe looking mauser. Did you pick it up at OMS?

Also that is a great battle axe looking mauser. Did you pick it up at OMS?

That mauser is one of the 4700 I resurrected when the T-53s started running out, its the only all matching (even the bolt matches.... took alot of digging as all the bolts were removed and shipped in a seperate crate for some reason) it also was originally so fouled it keyholed every shot for the first few hundred rounds, it now shoots 4" groups pretty consistently with surplus, I have almost every version/maker of the Chinese Mausers and do have every year/variation of the T-53s most as unissued un-fired specimens they may get fired someday but no reason as also have issued ones as well I use for playin with when I feel like it etc... and yep all came outa Don's place but long before they ever were brought out into the light of day to be sold off...

I bought one of these last year from him, real rough. But I was thinking at this price I may grab a few more. I just looked at the website, I dont see them listed, are they gone?

Dstorm

Thanks for the tidbit about the poor initial performance because the bore was icky fouled. I know I have worked the piss out of this one and am getting about 6 to 8 inch groups after less than 100 rounds using surplus light ball. I am going to try and pick up some heavy ball and give that a go. In the meantime I am happy to report that the Hornady .312 diameter interlock 150 grain SPs over 47 grains of Varget did pretty good. The overall length was set at 2.97 with light crimp.

I can't complain to much. I also noticed on this trip that the hand guard and cleaning rod work themselves loose after about 10 rounds. On my other T53 I noticed there was a piece of oiled burlap under the front of the hand guard to make it tighter. I think that I will try something similiar using old denim from some jeans sprayed with a little break free to keep them from drawing and holding moisture. That may help tighten things up some.

I had a lot of fun happy memorial day guys. Remember to thank our Vets and Active Duty Members.


http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/T53/T53_2/RangeDay2/100_9220.jpg

I bought one of these last year from him, real rough. But I was thinking at this price I may grab a few more. I just looked at the website, I dont see them listed, are they gone?

they were bout gone last year which was the last time I was there or talked to Don, was at the very bottom of the barrel and no cleaning rods

Dstorm

Thanks for the tidbit about the poor initial performance because the bore was icky fouled. I know I have worked the piss out of this one and am getting about 6 to 8 inch groups after less than 100 rounds using surplus light ball. I am going to try and pick up some heavy ball and give that a go. In the meantime I am happy to report that the Hornady .312 diameter interlock 150 grain SPs over 47 grains of Varget did pretty good. The overall length was set at 2.97 with light crimp.

I can't complain to much. I also noticed on this trip that the hand guard and cleaning rod work themselves loose after about 10 rounds. On my other T53 I noticed there was a piece of oiled burlap under the front of the hand guard to make it tighter. I think that I will try something similiar using old denim from some jeans sprayed with a little break free to keep them from drawing and holding moisture. That may help tighten things up some.

I had a lot of fun happy memorial day guys. Remember to thank our Vets and Active Duty Members.



I've found lots of folded and heat formed chinese news paper under the upper handgaurds etc... its usually not burnt so don't know what kinda paper it is, the wood shrinks with age as military rifles seldom get oiled to replace the lost moisture, as far as the cleaning rod the nut in the stock might be fauled, if ya remove the action ya will see a rectangular steeel block where the cleaning rod is supposed to thread into, same with mausers etc...

that must have been when I picked up mine, its pretty rough and doesnt have a bayo. After reading this post I pulled it out yesterday and started cleaning the fine rust off it with some steel wool. Its going to take some work to clean it up well though. Bore is nice, thats one plus!

that must have been when I picked up mine, its pretty rough and doesnt have a bayo. After reading this post I pulled it out yesterday and started cleaning the fine rust off it with some steel wool. Its going to take some work to clean it up well though. Bore is nice, thats one plus!

shoulda had a bayo but no cleaning rod, he has a few hundred bayos for them, none are mounted he puts em in the box seperatly stuck into a block of styrofoam in the bottom of the box........... did ya throw your bayo away with the box?

EVERY T-53 is beatup even the unissued ones as a result of how they were collected, stored and shipped to the USA

Ya know, now I think of it I did get a bayo, just no bolt that mounts it that why its not on there. I forgot I stuck it in a drawer in my work area

Ya know, now I think of it I did get a bayo, just no bolt that mounts it that why its not on there. I forgot I stuck it in a drawer in my work area

he puts the "bolt" or screw for it through the hole in the bayo as that is what holds the spring and the collar on the bayo while it is off the rifle and keeps the bayo assembled when he puts em in the styrofoam block in the box otherwise ya would not receive a bayo but rather three loose parts rattling around in the box and ya would have had to put a bayo sleeve a spring and a spike in that drawer... he can't ship em without the mounting screw......

So what's Don selling now? Did he ever get into those Chinese Mausers?

This thread inspired me to call Omega, and I just got off the phone with Don, owner and operator. You oughta call him if you ever have a few minutes to kill, and you want to learn a hell of a lot about the importation of the parts kits and rifles we buy and collect. He's an easy guy to talk to, and he's free with the knowledge he has. That's a rare combination of characteristics.

He's still got some of the Chinese T53s. He is definitely NOT out of them. The prices have gone up.

He has a small number of Chinese Chiang Kai-Shek Mausers that he's working on cleaning up and rematching the parts that he says he's going to sell for just under $100 shipped (to the lower 48, I assume). He says these are NOT shooters, but they make good collectibles.

He has a ton of Mosin-Nagant parts that came off the T53s he could not sell, because their stocks were so bad.

Now I'm going to break your heart. He told me he had a chance to buy 100,000 Chinese Broomhandle Mausers for $1 apiece, but he had to buy the whole lot. He couldn't raise the money, so he had to pass on it back in the 80's when the deal came along. I almost cried when he told me about it. He also said that the Chinese have mines full of firearms - huge mines - awaiting the laws that allow us to buy them.

This thread inspired me to call Omega, and I just got off the phone with Don, owner and operator. You oughta call him if you ever have a few minutes to kill, and you want to learn a hell of a lot about the importation of the parts kits and rifles we buy and collect. He's an easy guy to talk to, and he's free with the knowledge he has. That's a rare combination of characteristics.

He's still got some of the Chinese T53s. He is definitely NOT out of them. The prices have gone up.

He has a small number of Chinese Chiang Kai-Shek Mausers that he's working on cleaning up and rematching the parts that he says he's going to sell for just under $100 shipped (to the lower 48, I assume). He says these are NOT shooters, but they make good collectibles.

He has a ton of Mosin-Nagant parts that came off the T53s he could not sell, because their stocks were so bad.

Now I'm going to break your heart. He told me he had a chance to buy 100,000 Chinese Broomhandle Mausers for $1 apiece, but he had to buy the whole lot. He couldn't raise the money, so he had to pass on it back in the 80's when the deal came along. I almost cried when he told me about it. He also said that the Chinese have mines full of firearms - huge mines - awaiting the laws that allow us to buy them.

Thanks -- Now I feel like crying..

I wonder why the Cinese Chiang Kai-Shek Muasers are to poor to be shooters.

Thanks -- Now I feel like crying..

I wonder why the Cinese Chiang Kai-Shek Muasers are to poor to be shooters.

they are VERY rusty, also some loose barrels, the stocks are totally dry and shrunk from improper storage, only found one matching bolt (the one thats pictured above) and that took 3 days of searching to find...... And nothing left for rifling, I handpicked the best of em early on for bore condition and the were shipped (there were a couple hundred that had not been stripped down to component parts and were left intact so many still had matching numbered parts etc.. unfortunatly alot of those had been stored outside in a lean to) it was tough to find any that had anything resembling rifling, I had sorted out the best last year and put em on onea the empty T-53 racks but the big kicker was the stocks had been removed on most of the 4700 of em and stored seperatly so the metal could not be fitted back in..... most are barreled actions, the stocks are stacked on pallets in a semi trailer no climate control and 10-15 AZ summers...... I've got 400 or so pictures from when we were sorting em, I'll post a few this evening

The story on the Broomhandles is even sadder.... he actually did have funding lined up... the man with the $$ got greedy wanted the entire shipment and wasn't going to sell Don the few thousand he wanted in trade for setting up the deal so the whole thing went into the crapper

If he still has T-53s even the last 160 were just beatup on the wood for the most part, ya can slap em into a Russian stock cheap...... things musta slowed down quite a bit since last year, last time I saw him he wouldn't spend much time on the phone as was rushin tryin to get guns shipped etc... And that last pallet of rifles was sittin in the sun lettin some of the cosmoline cook off em, figured at the rate they were selling they woulda hadda be gone by now...... Don has some stuff ya simply won't find anywhere else......

Maybe we should take shifts, and volunteer to help him sort a couple days each year. He sounds like the kind of guy who'd be fun to pass a couple days with.

Maybe we should take shifts, and volunteer to help him sort a couple days each year. He sounds like the kind of guy who'd be fun to pass a couple days with.

he doesn't allow anyone into shop or the yard anymore, bout 2.5 years ago some stuff was taken right under both of our noses, he has one old alcoholic helper and thats it, I used to offer to help him box up guns for shipping but he wantts to do all of it himself...... last year he was gettin overwhelmed and tempers were gettin short in the 120 degree heat cause he had no time for a life and refused to let anyone help :( he is a really nice very old school kinda old guy (72) and works from sunup to well after sun gone, everything must be done in a VERY particular manor (which is how I KNOW the poster above had his bayo packaged and shipped exactly as I described, Don is VERY particular about how guns and parts are packaged right down to what side of the box the bayo will sit in etc...), anyone else helping and things get set wrong or something gets moved.........

I can understand that. I've had many people over to teach them to build. I enjoy building, I enjoy passing on knowledge, and I enjoy being able to build without having to buy a kit, but on two occasions when I had build parties people stole stuff from me. One time it was a sidefolder stock, and the other time it was two stamped Yugo RPK kits. I still teach, but a lot of the trust has gone out of me.