How to properly build a Galil on an ORF receiver

I'll start this out.

Only constructive comments/opinions.

no bashing/blaming/name calling or cat fighting.

discussions welcome

my replacement receiver should arrive within the next few days and i will take some pics to document the build. I know there is alot of info out there, so maybe this will be productive.

Great idea BigAl- I have a few Galil kits that are waiting to be built but I am concerned about the current crop of receivers. I want my Galil built right the first time with a quality, dependable receiver and I want to do it myself. As a newbie, I hugely appreciate all the knowledge collected on these forums. Thanks to all you guys who have "been there, done that" and are willing to help others.

Good goin BigAl! I swear to you I tried starting this last night but kept getting kicked off the site or it was slow responding. Oh well, lets get started.

Anyone?

I received my receiver today, hopefully I can get this started tomorrow.

Great, looking forward to it. Will you include pics?

BigAl,
You have a Galil or Yugo build?

Todd@ORF

I got an ORF receiver when I put my Galil together. I got to say that mine is great. I torked the barel into the receiver before I did anything else. Believe it or not, my head space was just a hair tight. After I shot it a few times my head space fell into specs and has held good since.

ORF stands behing their product. I had a problem with a milled M70 receiver they took care of ASAP for me.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/scaldwellk/100_0932_edited-1.jpg

BigAl,
You have a Galil or Yugo build?

Todd@ORF

I have a Galil. I have an undefolder Yugo on order.

Did some initial fitting. the IMI barrel times out at around 1 o'clock when hand tightened.

I plan on cutting a stainless steel shim of .010 shim stock in order to get the barrel to time out at around 10 o'clock, this should put it at 12 o'clock when tight.

does anyone see anything wrong with this method?

BigAl,
Nothing wrong with that, just check the headspace.

Todd@ORF

From what I have seen, the "timing" on the ORF receiver threads are consistent. I've tried green mountain barrels, IMI AR and IMI ARM barrels and they all time out at a different spot on the receiver.

O.K Rather than start the same debate under a new title....

What Big AL is looking for in my interpretation is any information from those who have NOT ran into issues building on these receivers, so how about one thread listing the problems and another listing those who have not had any problems......... now if one thread ends up shorter than the other then that is fine and pretty much speaks for itself...... so far we have 1 member who has managed to do his home build with positive results, how or why etc... hell it coulda been the perfect temp in his neighborhood that day for everything comming together for him...... doesn't matter lets let Big AL have his chance at trying to find ACTUAL builders who have had sucess, those with negative experiences keep it in the other thread and those like OSWALD2001 ya'll have absolutally nothing to contribute to either thread until ya have actual experience assembling these guns period and will be shutout as we don't need any trolling nor will it be tolerated, to that end everything OFF TOPIC as interpreted literally will be removed from public view in this thread so that Big AL can have that oppertunity before it gets really off topic etc... Mods or Admin can resurrect any posts deemed to be pertinent to the thread topic.

Scaldwelk how bout a step by step of your build, perhaps ya hit on something which others have missed?

I apologize for starting this thread and then being so slow to respond. I had 5 rifles I've been waiting to assemble all reach completion at the same time and I want those finished and out of the way.

What I want to do is document my build and any problems I have. If anyone has constructive input I would appreciate it.

I need to rivet my trigger guard and bullet guide (probably tonight) before I get into the barrel work.

I did do some prelim fitting with my mag adapter and it will require some fitting, the radius of the mag well is too tight. Not a big deal.

building the gun is not a problem, I show step by step how to do it, as well as how to remachine the ORF receiver for the bolt carrier to fit and install the camming surfaces (functional) and to machine the L side of the trunion area to cosmetically duplicate an IMI gun (the ORF has less material removed from this area, which is not a functional issue).

BULDING the gun - as in, getting all the parts to fit and complete a function check, has never been an issue, and why I have always stated that BUILDING the gun is not a big deal with patience and a few minor fixtures or tools (such as the trigger guard riviting). The "fatal" issues I had were from the receiver deforming in a critical location during firing, not in the assembly.

If your receivers do not share the locking recess issues that mine did, then you should have no problem, following my tutorial. I do need to fix some of the links, though, as some of the thumbnails aren't properly linking to the fullsize images

I have a Galil. I have an undefolder Yugo on order.

Did some initial fitting. the IMI barrel times out at around 1 o'clock when hand tightened.

I plan on cutting a stainless steel shim of .010 shim stock in order to get the barrel to time out at around 10 o'clock, this should put it at 12 o'clock when tight.

does anyone see anything wrong with this method?


I have a collection of L1A1 (inch FAL) barrel shims. They are good for that. The ones I have are mostly thicker ones though. One of the best sources for barrel shims I found is the one inch "arbor shim ( washers)" from Graingers. They are hardened. Use a bit of barrel paste (or anti seize) on the threads and torque surfaces.

arbor shims

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/productIndex.shtml?L2=Arbor&operator=prodIndexRefinementSearch&originalValue=shim&L1=Shims%2C

I forgot the Galil threads are a slightly smaller diameter. A one inch washer might be too large in diameter.A custom shim might be better.

I think the stainless will work good as it will not distort like other materials.

I'll probably use some thread lock for the final install...

I think the stainless will work good as it will not distort like other materials.

I'll probably use some thread lock for the final install...


I think it would be better to use some barrel paste / anti seize compound and proper torque instead of thread lockier. You might even end up facing the barrel shoulder back to properly time and torque the barrel. It usually doesn't take much. Check the head space before anything. The barrel doesn't have to be timed the first time you check head space. That will give you an idea of which way it needs to go.

I think it would be better to use some barrel paste / anti seize compound and proper torque instead of thread lockier. You might even end up facing the barrel shoulder back to properly time and torque the barrel. It usually doesn't take much. Check the head space before anything. The barrel doesn't have to be timed the first time you check head space. That will give you an idea of which way it needs to go.


Since I am over timed, I don't need to face the barrel, that will just allow the barrel to thread in further, decreasing the amount of headspace I currently have, correct?

Prelim fitting is that I am tight on a go gauge already when at TDC..

If I was over headspaced and needed to gain ground, facing the barrel shoulder would be great. A tool similar to the FAL tool would work. I don't know if a FAL shoulder tool would work, I doubt it.

I think I've seen somewhere that 150 ft lbs of torque is required? that seems excessive. I spoke to a top of the line builder and they thought that was excessive also..??

Since I am over timed, I don't need to face the barrel, that will just allow the barrel to thread in further, decreasing the amount of headspace I currently have, correct?

Prelim fitting is that I am tight on a go gauge already when at TDC..

If I was over headspaced and needed to gain ground, facing the barrel shoulder would be great. A tool similar to the FAL tool would work. I don't know if a FAL shoulder tool would work, I doubt it.

I think I've seen somewhere that 150 ft lbs of torque is required? that seems excessive. I spoke to a top of the line builder and they thought that was excessive also..??


Besides thread locker bing th wrong thing to hold the barrel, the chamber will get too hot for thread locker to hold properly. If I remember correct;y the threads are 21mm. Try unscrewing a factory installed barrel. They are very tight. I think somewhere around 120ft-lbs should be enough to hold the barrel. Lube the threads, the barrel shoulder and both sides of the shim if used. First torque the barrel short of 12 o'clock., unscrew it. Then retorque to 12 o'clock. The pre-torquingwill help seat the threads and spread the lube. Brownell's should have barrel paste but other grease can be used such as moly or anti-seize. Not much is neeeded.

OK, I finally finished up some less frustrating projects and am back to my Galil. I apologize for the crappy pictures, I need to research my camera functions.

Today I riveted in the bullet Guide. It is an IMI guide. At first I could not find the guide in my kit, so I was trying to use an AK guide but couldn't get satisfaction from it. Finally dug around and found the IMI guide. Kinda PITA by yourself, but it is done.


Next came fitting the IMI barrel to the ORF receiver. It timed out at about 2 o'clock, hand tight. The only way I know of to correct this is to shim the barrel. I used a piece of .010 stainless steel shim. I traced a circle with a socket, cut it out the same ID as the barrel threads, left about 1/8" around the OD.

When installed, this caused the barrel to time out at 10 o'clock when hand tight, TDC when I put the wrench to it.

Now, I checked the head space:

the stripped bolt will close freely with no round chambered.
the stripped bolt will close on Wolf 5.56 ammo.
the stripped bolt would not close on Remington Ultramax .223
the stripped bolt would close easily on a go guage
the stripped bolt will not close on a no go or field gauge.

based on that, I am assuming I have proper head space, perhaps a little tight, but the bolt does lock up and engage.

now there is an issue I noticed with the ORF receiver. the left locking surface appears to be cut at a slight angle. I compared this to a factory milled Yugo (not a Galil I know, but the same would apply I think), the Yugo is cut straight. I posted some pics of this.

I'm going to rivet the trigger guard on now. looks like the steel mag will lock up nicely, however i did notice a slight machining difference in the left side vs. right side of the ORF magwell.

I appreciate anyone's advice, help, etc.

advice - buy real headspace gauges. using a cartridge is not a safe alternative.

The left locking lug is a facotry defect in the receiver - but its still your fault - just ask Todd.

I have "real" head space gauges...Notice I said go, no go and field gauges...

I am worried that the left lug is a weak point, not enough surface contact with the bolt due to the angle

I'm sorry, Big Al, misread your statements about the Wolff and Remington ultramax to be you using them as headspace gauges. My apologies.

two seperate issues - the difference between 5.56 and .223, and also on some commercial ammo with long bullet ogive, , you may need greater leade, or freebore.

The left locking lug recess is a significant issue. What some people do is to hack away on their mil-spec, correctly dimensioned bolts, to try and get it to fit evenly in the out-of-spec, defective receiver.

And if you check the headspace without the bolt carrier, as Todd claims should be done, it can hide the uneven bearing surfaces, as nothing keeps the shank of the bolt centered - maybe thats why he does it that way - "don't look and it won't be there".

Of course, this will increase your headspace.

You could also weld up and recut the milspec bolt to fill the gap caused by the defective, out-of-spec receiver, but then you run into a heat treatment hassel, as the welding will anneal the bolt the lug.

It sounds like you have an expenisve paperweight, since Todd won't warranty his defective products to home builders.

Just remember - the dangerous defects in the receiver are YOUR FAULT!

the remington is 55 grain. I was just wondering how the .223 compared to the 5.56. I also have some Prvi and some Radway, I will most likely use them in the rifle.

I finished the rifle up tonight, it is ready to test fire. steel mags cycle and lock up great, mag adapter needs fitting, haven't checked orlite yet.

the rifle is very smooth, but that doesn't count!

I don't know how else to build the rifle other than what I've done.

I can't imagine any of the other builders out there doing things more different than me or investing more time than me and being able to make any money. it takes a good day to build one.

well, 200 rounds down the pipe, no FTF or FTE. Orlite and steel mags both work and lock up well. no visible deformation of the receiver or bolt. great ejection, no unusual marks on any of the brass.

i'm afraid to strip the bolt and re check the headspace! i guess that's what i will do next.

Well, stripped down the bolt and checked the headspace..

headspace is gone again.

there is a slight difference in the left and right locking surfaces.

I'm gong to contact ORF about getting a different bolt.

I just completed a build with a ORF receiver and put over 200 rds through it and so far so good,the head space seams to be holding. Before I started on the build I read a lot of posts about the head space problem on the receiver and this what I did. I checked the lugs by placing the bolt in battery.Next I slid the bolt carrier in the receiver and put the tail of the bolt in the carrier where its normally held.The carrier will stop just short of the lugs.Take the handle of a screwdriver that will fit in the hole for the barrel and push strait back against the bolt face. Use a bright flashlight, LEDs work great for this and look in the chamber area.You can see both lugs and if they are making contact. The left lug on my rec. had a gap you could see. Next I broke out the lapping compound and using an old barrel, a resized 223 brass and stiff spring made a lapping tool. I worked on the right lug only. For 5 nights 1 to 2 hrs a night until both lugs made equal contact and the tail of the bolt would line up with the carrier when I slid the carrier in behind a in battery bolt. This led to another problem. Before I started the lapping process the bolt would barely close with a no-go gage and the barrel hand tight. After the lapping the bolt would close and had some play with the no-go gage. This didn't really concern me sense I was using a new IMI bbl with no handguard or extractor cuts. I agree with GP that the GM bbl should come this way. I had to trim the shoulder to get head space. I wish that Todd had posted a little earlier about how they head space where the bolt doesn't fully close on a go gage but I do have another bolt that will not close on a go gage if I need it.
I only suggest the method if your using a new IMI bbl because a GM bbl probably will not work after lapping the right lug. The receiver that I have is in the 7XX range. I also have 2 Century galils with about 300 to 400 rds each and when I checked HS the bolt would close about 1/2 way with a go gage. I am not a gunsmith this is a hobby that I enjoy. I hope this helps some with a build.

good luck crockett

well, my next attempt will be to get a thicker bolt and try to lap it in i guess. i beleive mine is in the 300 range