Why the 7.62X39?

[Wildpony]

Just for the sake of entertainment and the possible enlightenment to facts that I and others may, as of yet, not be aware of.....

Other than it's traditional value, What makes the 7.62 superior to other cartriges available in AKs.

Accuracy, reliability, terminal ballistics, external balistics, shootability ect.

Consider these variables.

[KillrBAT]

Wildpony,
I personally believe that the 7.62x39 cartridge is superior to the other calibers offered in the AK type weapons. Here's why; The 7.62x39 provides heavier knockdown power than the smaller .223 or .222 which were designed to wound an adversary and or for varmint hunting. On the other hand, it doesn't have the heavy recoil of the .308 and the 7.62x54 in the Draganov's or the RomAK III's. I think the 7.62x39 is better suited for combat situations for it's ability to cut through brush or other obstacles. This cartridge will easily go through automobiles and buildings and has no trouble with 1/4in. steel plate either. I am also partial to this cartridge because of it's affordability compared to the other cartridges. Another personal opinion is that a .30cal. muzzle is a little more intimidating than a .22 cal muzzle. I'm not knocking the other cartridges because they are all excellent for particular things. I just think the 7.62x39 is best suited for the AK.

[Wildpony]

Ok, how about the lower recoil impulse, increased accuracy, and extended range of the 5.56 and 5.45? Knockdown is subjective and there are many different ways of calculating it a 223 at 300fps may have more ftlbs. than the 7.62 at 2500 fps but but the blunt force is an issue to consider as well as how the bullet transfers its energy. No decisive arguement can really ba made in favor of iether one. That is unless there is some factor that I am ignorant to or am forgetting to think about.

So what about the other issues I mentioned; range, reliability, accuracy, etc.

I hope nobody takes offense Im just playing devils advocate here for the sake of education. Im running a post like this in the 5.45 section also "Why the 5.45?"

[fargo007]

As a combat rifle, this is important...

A .223 is ballistically right on the edge. If you have any, any obstruction in the barrel, say... a single drop of water, you will explode the firearm. It can't take the high pressure.

Even ordinary carbon/gas/copper buildup in the .223 barrel will eventually lead to this if not cleaned.

A 7.62x39 doesn't do that. You can pick it up out of water and shoot it immediately.

#2,

It has zero muzzle flash, natively. No FS required on a standard length barrel.

A .223 makes a 5 gallon bucket sized fireball with no device on the front.

I can't speak for the 5.45 yet, as it's still new to me, but I like it so far ;)

--Fargo007

[JakeTheSnakeOO7]

How about because Kalashnikov designed it to. I would like to see america go back to weapons using the 30-06 caliber. An assualt rifle with AP 30-06 rounds would be very nice. I know it would be heavy and have a good deal of recoil. But the effective range and ability to peirce steel would most definately be a plus. But I personally like the 7.62x39mm cartridge in the AK it was built for it and works like a dream when paired in the AK. But from what I hear the 74 5.45 is changing minds every day when people shoot the two.
How bad is the recoil on the 74 if anybody can tell me I've never had the chance to shoot one.

[ozmosis]

OK i'll bite, First the 5.56 nato, 7.62x39 and the 5.45x39 are for a close in fight- CQB, Rapid sight picture, fast shots and controlable auto fire. In that are they do there job. They all have drawbacks and benefits but of the three i would go for the 5.45x39 it tumbles at 3 inches inside soft stuff. When i get my 6.8spc i'll report back- its kinda like a semi auto .270. I has all the things i like in a 30-06 but in a M468 platform. My 2 cents.

[fargo007]

The AK74 (SAR-2) kicks like a 10-22, and that's no schitt. At least with a buffer in it. I imagine with a brake, there'd be a lot less.

Barrel length plays a part here too. The terminal ballistic properties of the .223 are dependent on velocity, and that means barrel length. This is why kaat chewin' skinny's in Somalia hit in the torso three times with M4's kept comin, but when the SAW touched them, they crumbled in place.

Truth is, they're all good rounds, but they have different strengths. At 600 yards, I'd prefer the .223. Shooting at people behind cover or in cars, x39. Urban street combat, or fast engagement of multiple targets I'd take a krink in 5.45.

--Fargo007

[DaWoof]

The problem with 7.62X39 is that commy block ammo is made so flimsy that it sheds the jacket and fragments if it his anything hard including glass. If you've ever seen the video, "Deadly Weapons" comparing the different calibers, you get a whole new perspective on ammo. It's worth the investment of 20+ bucks if you're REALLY interested in what different ammo can do. They start with .22 cal. and go up through .50...semi and full auto weapons and demonstrate body armor as well....Can order from: ANITE Productions @ 800-762-7233. (Hope it's OK to post this!)

[falup]

anyone ever shoot anything like a whitetail or elk w/ the 7.62x39?

[JA]

4 point whitetail at 100 yards one shot and it ran 75 yards. The heart was blown into several pieces. Chinese ammo with the bullet pulled with a Hornady 123gr soft point bullet seated in the case with the same powder charge. I have made 100's of these rounds for myself and friends for deer hunting. Over the last 15+ years it has accounted for dozens of deer shot with SKS rifles.

[JakeTheSnakeOO7]

The would make a good hunting rifle try to keep your game with in 250 yards though. I still prefer 7mm-08 or 30-06 will drop ANY game you come across at long distances.

[jcbrown]

10 point buck at 130 yards with my Bulgarian SLR95 AK and Remington Corelokt ammo. Aimed for the heart in extremely low light conditions and he was in 4' high grass. Hit him in the base of the skull and cleanly brained him. Dropped in place. Man, that was a bad shot.

3 year old doe at 150 yards with my Yugo sks with Remington Corelokt ammo. Hit went thru the heart and jugular, rear to front. Ran 75 yards and died.

In heavy woods, the AK round is great for white tail.

[hillmillenia]

Weren't "assault" rifles designed for relatively close-in combat...select fire...large magazine capacity?I recall the Nazi's originated the idea and the basis for a short .30 cal. or metic equivelent type round. In real situations the 7.62X39 is still quite powerful and at very close range it tends to dump it's energy after it passes through..so to speak..the 5.56 is a wounder in the current 1 in 7 bbl. I don't know how I feel about the theory of tying up personel dealing with wounded solders...I would not want to be on the receiving end of either and ballistics is almost alchemy...but the .45 is still a better round....in my opinion.. :)

[Theophorus]

It is my understanding that the AK is a weapon designed for close combat (Under 200 meters). The AK isn't designed to wring out the ballistics of a .223 sized cartride, so you really shouldn't worry about long range stuff with the AK. If you want long range, use a bolt action or a scoped M1A, and sling the AK for a back-up type weapon to help get you out of Dodge if need be.

The smaller cartridges were adopted by the military because some idiot statisticians in an office figured that the more bullets a guy fired the more kills he'd achieve, and so they devised a way for a soldier to be able to carry more ammo--make the bullets smaller. The military is beginning to see the error of this mindset, and is considering adopting a 6.8 Remington cartridge for use in a modified AR platform.

That all said, I believe that you get far more bang for your buck by using the larger, sufficiently accurate, and original cartridge the rifle was designed around--7.62 x 39. It works just as fine as any other in CQB conditions.

$.02 Theo

[swampdragon]

All -3- calibres are fine for QCB. All -3- will readily "take somebody out" in a heart beat. However, I too prefer the 7.62x39 just for it's hard target punching, and brush busting capabilities. The other -2- can't compare.
And, if using 7.62x39 soft or hollow points, it's performance on soft-targets jumps WAAAAAAY up, yet at the same time, the overall mass of the larger round STILL bucks brush and hard targets better than the smaller/lighter rounds, regardless of their velocity. The AK was originally designed for the 7.62x39. Kalashnikov himself fought against the 5.45mm! Sometimes the "classics" just shouldn't be messed with? IMHO....

[NRAJOE]

7.62x39 is all my 4 AK's are...have toyed with the idea of other calibers, but think I will stick with the original...

[swampdragon]

Me too pretty much. The 7.62x39 may arch more as far as long range trajectory, but so what? If your sights are zeroed, you'll have no problem. Russian soldiers are trained to hit targets at 400 meters. My 7.62 is really for CQB, but, if I can still hit a man sized target @ 400 meters, then I'm good to go as far as I'm concerned. Plus, the mass of the 7.62 just can't be beat.

[Wildpony]

Just to stir the pot.

American marines are trained to hit at 500+ yards. And SF Soldiers are trained to do that same thing with the M4.

Of course the effectiveness on the 5.56 is going to be marginal at best at these distances. And I be wind plays hell on the 70 grain bullet out in the desert.

[jredjones]

i've owned a few sks's and 3 or 4 ak-47's i'm currently shooting a modified slr-95 i'm shooting arround an 1" at 100 yards a few years ago i baught some remington corlockt soft points made them into hallow points and sunk a carbite pin in the center droped a deer at about 75 yards took a step and fell normal entrance hole exit hole was the size of my fist horible waist for hunting but wow some serious damage if i'm going to reach out farther than 200 yards i'll use a diferant rifle but within 200 yards the ak-47 is my favorite rifle i've owned 3 ar-15's and they look cool and i've tried hard to like it but it's the gun thay stays in my safe the ak is the rifle i take with me every ware so i gust got rid of my last ar-15 the it's just preferance i don't think i'd like the smaller ak round