Norincos and Navy SEAL [Archive] - The AK Files Forums

m03

07-29-2004, 07:13 PM

that is pure B.S to the 10th degree.......why would they need to buy AKs when there are plenty of them to be had from the capturing of them in conflicts ie iraq afganastan etc...? where did you read that B.S?

Wrong. The SEALs aren't going to cut corners by using old, worn, and potentially failure-prone equipment, especially when their lives at at risk. It makes perfect sense to buy them new, however, I don't think they would buy them from the Chinese.

moamike

07-29-2004, 09:12 PM

Chances are that they get them the same place my old unit got theirs: Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

There they take captured weapons, do a total magnaflux of the gun, replace any worn or unsafe parts, certify them, and put them into service.

Aberdeen PG isn't the only place to get foreign weapons in the system, but it's one of the best. There are other depots as well, one in particular in KY, that cater to the SpecOps units.

I'd consider the source of the information as bunk.......

Respectfully,
Mike

Andy

07-30-2004, 12:27 AM

I heard this from finnish bulletin board. The guy who said it is very well known AK expert and gunsmith, but he didn't say where he have heard this. It's possible that it isn't true.

I understood that idea is that if SEAL:s wants to disguise local militants they need guns that doesn't tell that they are americans.

Polish Taipan

07-30-2004, 01:41 AM

I had actually heard this a few months ago. Can't remember the source though, it was basically to tout the quality of Norincos. FWIW.

texengland

07-30-2004, 03:06 AM

I've heard the same thing a while back.

Andy

07-30-2004, 06:08 AM

why would they need to buy AKs when there are plenty of them to be had from the capturing of them in conflicts

Norincos are so cheap that it means nothing in SEAL:s budget. 100$ each perhaps when government buys guns. If they are needed some hundreds it is only some tens of thousands.

But can you say where have you heard about this?

16r40

07-30-2004, 02:48 PM

Norincos are so cheap that it means nothing in SEAL:s budget. 100$ each perhaps when government buys guns. If they are needed some hundreds it is only some tens of thousands.

But can you say where have you heard about this?

the military gets captured weapons and equpiment for testing, and use ......everything from smalls arms to tanks, planes.....the military does not go out and buy this stuff from the bad guys, or other countries. out at Fort Irwin they have a vast collection of soviet weapons, and other comblock weapons for use by the rotating units to get some hands on training with them, all of which have either been taking off the battlefield, or given to them by countries like isreali.......... of course for someone that has never been in the military will say "they buy the stuff from china, russia etc.." individual units can also bring back enemy weapons for training purposes and for weapons familization. we brought back some AKs and one RPG from DESERT STORM, and we were a Air Defense unit. besides the individual units, there is probably a warehouse full of AKs, SVDs and other small arms that are maintain by the military, no doubt they are probably checked for servicibility, and are issued to units that have a need for them.

but buying them from NORINCO?.....well if you want to believe that fairy tale, go right ahead.

Andy

07-31-2004, 01:19 PM

NewtoFals

07-31-2004, 02:52 PM

I have seen this myth posted on gun sale boards.......

'BUY THIS NORICO MAK 90! THE SAME ONE USED BY THE NAVY SEALS! :ROLLEYES:

There are navy seal knives, navy seal wallets,watches, boots, shorts,m16's,shirts, hats, books, sunscreen, 1911's,holsters, backpacks, webgear, headbands......so why not a navy seal ak.

While norinco's have better quality than your typical crap sar. They are just ak's.

16r40

07-31-2004, 06:25 PM

I would hope that you don't insult me.
I have been only in finnish military and they bought some 100 000 Norinco 56:s. Perhaps US Army doesn't buy Norincos and instead of that they take them from their own storages. But do SEAL:s block just Norinco 56:s and no other AK:s?

I wasn't intended to insult you. the finnnish military buying AKs is one thing......after all how many conflicts and wars have the finns been in that they are able to aquire soviet or combloc weapons? zero, so it basically stands to reason that if they want to get AKs they are forced to buy them from somewhere. that is not the case for the US, going back to viet nam and every conflict and war the US has engaged in, there are plenty of those rifles in storage for them to be given to SF units as they require, or if the SF units went and got them from where ever they happen to be at.

the only buying of AKs I ever heard of that the US gov't did was from romania for the new iraqi army

JakeTheSnakeOO7

07-31-2004, 10:10 PM

I agree with 16r40, I don't think the Navy Seals who have any type and kind of weapon available to their disposal would be using Norincos. I bet they could pull an AK out of storage totally refurbish it from the stock to the tip of the barrel with the best materials and create their own AK that was superior to the Norinco in every aspect in the first place. To buy them from of all places commie china, I don't think so. Seals would sooner be buying aks (if it ever happened) from Russia of all places. Besides their are companies here in the US who could produce a top notch AK for the price. Its just like NewtoFals said "While norinco's have better quality than your typical crap sar. They are just ak's."

Andy

08-01-2004, 11:24 AM

after all how many conflicts and wars have the finns been in that they are able to aquire soviet or combloc weapons? zero,

I'd say three: Freedom War, Winter War and Continuation War. And worst is that part of captured material is still in use! :uhoh_smal Tarkka-ampujakivääri 85 (sharpshooter rifle 85) is based on Mosin Nagant and their receivers and bolts are russian/Soviet made. Degtyarev LMG:s were abandoned about year 2000. But no AK:s, right.

Of course Navy SEAL could make a Super AK that is every way better than norinco - or they could buy them from Finland ;) - but it wouldn't be more local militant gun lookalike.

v42

08-01-2004, 06:01 PM

I believe I saw the quote somewhere on AK world about the Navy SEALs buying Norinko Aks.

I have been only in finnish military and they bought some 100 000 Norinco 56:s.

Yes, but you bought them because you needed a large number of guns to equip your reserves. The Navy SEALs would only need a few hundred guns at most. They would need them to train with to be familiar with the AK or to use in areas where they did not want to us the M-16 because resupply of ammo could be taken from people they killed, or so their guns would sound the same as the enemy. In those situations, given the huge number of guns captured in Iraq in 1990 and again in 2003, there would be plenty to choose from.

I don't understand why we are buying Romanian AK's for the Iraqis. I would imagine there are enough AKs in Iraq to outfit any army.

vfortytwoATyahoo.com

16r40

08-01-2004, 10:30 PM

I don't understand why we are buying Romanian AK's for the Iraqis. I would imagine there are enough AKs in Iraq to outfit any army.

vfortytwoATyahoo.com

I was mistaken when I said romanian, they are bulgarian AKs being bought from ARSENAL, supposedly in 5.56 not 7.62......guess they may want the iraqis to be standardized to NATO ammo.

Andy

08-02-2004, 12:32 AM

Isn't Arsenal subscription a price for Bulgarian government for their loyality in Irak war?

I have understood that iraqis's Arsenals are 7,62 because of logistics.

fargo007

08-02-2004, 08:24 AM

Seals widely and openly carried the AK in vietnam. I have a video called "the stoner machine gun." It's a documentary in which the Stoner is discussed in detail. It also has a lot of era footage of the Seals, a pre-patrol/mission briefing, and a description of who carried what.

The Narrator carried an AK.

I found the video on Amazon.com, and highly recommend it.

--Fargo007

JakeTheSnakeOO7

08-02-2004, 08:55 PM

We are buying Bulgarian AKs NOT romanian AKs and the russians are not happy about it. What the hell do they expect buy a russian ak for about $500 dollars or bulgarian for $100 dollars a pop. Their the ones who flooded the market with these rifles in the first place. Hey sorry Russia that the whole Communist thing didn't take off like you planed it would but you gave the plans and schematics away to your "friends" now look they have beaten you out of the market. This is what I foresee for American Auto manufactures one day.
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/07/26/kalashnikov.shtml

PvtPyle

08-02-2004, 10:00 PM

Uh, working in an Armsroom for a multi-national SF unit in Afghanistan I can tell you the SEALs that we saw had NEW Romanian AK's in 7.62. They did buy them and for the SEALs or PJ's to throw down a few 100k on weapons systems from other contries is nothing for them. They may as well not have budgets when you compair them to the Army and Marine Corps. I can tell you they had them because I had a few of them in the Armsroom for storage and a repair. Brand new guns.

And we also bought about 40,000 AK's from 3 different former Warsaw countries to equip the new Afghan Army that was being trained while we were there. Additionally in regards to the captured AK's, we either destroyed the unserviceable ones (the vast majority of them) and put the others back into service with our indig security forces that we trained and paid. I processed just over 600 AK's that went down range in 10 months. But that was not nearly enough to fill the need. Captured stuff is a real pain to get into the system and track when dealing with foreign troops and issuing. The Army would rather buy them and get them in mass into the system than to enter a handfull at a time.

v42

08-02-2004, 11:03 PM

According to the article on Russia being upset about US buying other countries knockoffs: "The Jordanian rifles sold for about $60 each — less than one-fourth of the price of a new Kalashnikov from the Izhmash plant, according to Rosoboronexport data." So a Russian Ak sells for about $240.

I cannot see us outfitting Iraq or Afghanistan with 5.56 mm AKs, since then none of the current ammo or magazines they have on hand would work. A

Additionally in regards to the captured AK's, we either destroyed the unserviceable ones (the vast majority of them) and put the others back into service with our indig security forces that we trained and paid.
Unservicable? But they worked well enough when the enemy had them to be a threat. I understand that some may have been worn out, but an AK is a pretty durable rifle.

I processed just over 600 AK's that went down range in 10 months. But that was not nearly enough to fill the need. Captured stuff is a real pain to get into the system and track when dealing with foreign troops and issuing. The Army would rather buy them and get them in mass into the system than to enter a handfull at a time.

It sounds like our system was designed by the quartermasters from Isandlwana-way slower, more complex, and more expensive than it needs to be.

vfortytwoATyahoo.com

PvtPyle

08-03-2004, 12:36 AM

MIssing front sights, broken stocks, cracked receivers or other missing parts will allow the weapon to work. But for our uses that makes them unserviceable.

Sgt_Gold

08-10-2004, 07:02 PM

I'm an armorer, and I think the best way to put this is 'third world reliability doesn't equate to first world accountibility'. We issue new weapons because that's how our system is set up. Going over battlefield pickups is fine for training weapons and arms room bring backs, but is very time consuming for the reissue of weapons on a large scale.

Unservicable? But they worked well enough when the enemy had them to be a threat. I understand that some may have been worn out, but an AK is a pretty durable rifle.

It sounds like our system was designed by the quartermasters from Isandlwana-way slower, more complex, and more expensive than it needs to be.

vfortytwoATyahoo.com

howiebearse

08-21-2004, 12:34 PM

the military has bought new ak rifles in the past they have places that the pentagon uses to purchase riles on the open market. their is a good supply of weapons and equipt at aberdeen and anniston for issue. i believe the flavor of the month for purchases has been bulgarian and romanian rifles they recently bought them for the new police and armys they are forming. cant understand though how much stuff the blow up then go and buy . but then again the govt does what the pencil pushers say it all makes scense to them:)