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notasheeple
09-12-2016, 08:16 PM
I today received my item 507840, 11.5" 5.56 upper.

The webpage to order these clearly shows an Anchor Harvey forge mark.

My item received has NO forge markings whatsoever.

Have I been sent a blem?

I expect a forge marked item to ship as such.

Otherwise I may as well order from an no-name seller.

PSA link to item:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-11-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-melonite-pistol-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

Photo from PSA link showing Anchor Harvey forge mark:
http://i.imgur.com/6zRegiw.png (http://imgur.com/6zRegiw)

Photo of my item with NO forge marks:
http://i.imgur.com/H6jYddB.jpg (http://imgur.com/H6jYddB)

PSA, I look forward to your response.

Palmetto State Armory
09-13-2016, 10:04 AM
Thank you for your inquiry.

The forge mark denotes which forge house makes the lump of aluminum that is later machined, by someone else, into an upper receiver. The forging is a raw material and it is fungible. All of the upper receivers we use are 7075 T6 aluminum forgings, and can come from any one of a half a dozen US forging houses that supply the industry, Anchor Harvey included. The quality of the forging becomes evident in the machining and finishing of the receiver, as machining and coloring can reveal inconsistencies in the alloy. The machining house culls any subpar forgings and recycles them. While rare, it happens with all of the houses, especially during times of high demand as the forge houses rush to put out all they can. As the forge house has absolutely no control over the machining and finishing of the receiver, the forge mark, while familiar and good for trivial knowledge, has little to do with the quality of the finished product.

We do not specify which forge house makes the uppers in the description. The uppers may be marked Anchor Harvey, Brass Aluminum, or others, or not at all. That the particular upper in the photo had an AH mark is just luck of the draw.

Our blems are just that, blemishes in the finish - scratches, and other external cosmetic issues that do not affect function.

We stand behind our products with a lifetime warranty against defects in materials or workmanship. If you are not happy with the upper please contact customer service directly for a return.

notasheeple
09-13-2016, 12:58 PM
Dear PSA respresentative,

I have spent thousands of dollars with
PSA.

I have never received an AR upper that does not have forge markings.

Is this the new standard for PSA?

In regards to contacting customer service, I had my first issue in years last month and called to speak to a CS representative.

After speaking and trying to resolve the issue professionally over a simple $110 order, the CS rep was very unprofessional and bad for business.

When I asked if a $110 order issue is worth risking the business of my friends and I whom spend thousands of dollars each (we usually buy the same items), the CS rep simply said "Oh well".

Is this item able to be switched for one with a forge mark?

Regards.

Palmetto State Armory
09-13-2016, 02:02 PM
Dear PSA respresentative,

I have spent thousands of dollars with
PSA.
I have never received an AR upper that does not have forge markings.
Is this the new standard for PSA?

We have always had a mix of forge markings, as described in the response above, and I have been here since the beginning. That you have not received anything else is a testament to blind luck of the draw.

As the M4 uppers are finished to mil-specs, we do not sort for forge marks - it simply has no meaningful bearing on the finished receiver. The same machine that cuts the AH upper you are fond of, most likely did the unmarked uppers as well - the machine does not care what the side of the upper has embossed in it. The aluminum forgings are identical by design and specification. Any forging can be machined incorrectly, or out of spec. It is the company that finishes the upper that counts. If you have been satisfied with the machining of our uppers in the past - you will be satisfied with this one. We will do what we can to make sure.

In regards to contacting customer service, I had my first issue in years last month and called to speak to a CS representative.

After speaking and trying to resolve the issue professionally over a simple $110 order, the CS rep was very unprofessional and bad for business.

When I asked if a $110 order issue is worth risking the business of my friends and I whom spend thousands of dollars each (we usually buy the same items), the CS rep simply said "Oh well".

Is this item able to be switched for one with a forge mark?

Regards.

I am sorry to hear you had an issue with a previous order. We try to do our best to keep the customer satisfied.

I can understand the personal attachment or fondness for a particular cosmetic feature, and the desire to keep a uniformity in one's collection.

Unfortunately, because we do not separate or categorize for the mark, if you were to call customer service, and ask them to "give me an upper with a particular forge mark or lose all my business", they have no way to physically accommodate this request. While there is a lot they can do, CS does not make the uppers, they can only ship out what we have. As the mark is not a categorized feature, there is no way to ensure, one way or the other, which finished uppers, of the 6000 on the shelf at any given time, have a particular forge mark.

However, if you PM me the details of your initial CS issue, and the order number of this order, I will see what I can do.

hartmanart
09-13-2016, 02:05 PM
I want a refund for the 2 minutes of my life I spent reading this stupid thread. Who do I charge the op or PSA?

bigrog210
09-13-2016, 02:15 PM
The 2016'er

Palmetto State Armory
09-13-2016, 02:17 PM
I want a refund for the 2 minutes of my life I spent reading this stupid thread. Who do I charge the op or PSA?

Neither.

That you not only read it, but bothered to respond, tells me all I need to know.

I bet you slow down and rubberneck when the accident is on the other side of the divided freeway, too...:wink_smal

hartmanart
09-13-2016, 03:18 PM
Don't know where the rubberneck comment came from, and I don't buy anything from you guys even though you constantly fill my inbox almost daily trying to peddle the cheapest crap you can resell. It baffles my mind when people shop on the dollar menu and expect to get a steak dinner.
Thanks for reminding me I have to get off your email list. Have a nice day.

Palmetto State Armory
09-13-2016, 03:47 PM
Don't know where the rubberneck comment came from, and I don't buy anything from you guys even though you constantly fill my inbox almost daily trying to peddle the cheapest crap you can resell. It baffles my mind when people shop on the dollar menu and expect to get a steak dinner.
Thanks for reminding me I have to get off your email list. Have a nice day.

It was humor.

If I have to explain the joke, I have failed, and I will bear full responsibility for the attempt.

notasheeple
09-13-2016, 04:31 PM
"I can understand the personal attachment or fondness for a particular cosmetic feature, and the desire to keep a uniformity in one's collection."

None of the above apply. It's about knowing 100% the product I am spending my money on.

mike in pa
09-13-2016, 06:20 PM
Can I have bait and switch for a hundred?

Burdette
09-13-2016, 06:28 PM
I want a refund for the 2 minutes of my life I spent reading this stupid thread. Who do I charge the op or PSA?


https://media0.giphy.com/media/11uArCoB4fkRcQ/200.gif

notasheeple
09-13-2016, 06:29 PM
Even Anderson with their very inexpensive line of products leaves the Cerro forge markings on their uppers.

Why take a forge mark off?

Burdette
09-13-2016, 06:30 PM
Edit by PSA: Thank you for your stunningly well thought out opinion. Please keep it to yourself next time.

Palmetto State Armory
09-13-2016, 06:54 PM
Even Anderson with their very inexpensive line of products leaves the Cerro forge markings on their uppers.

Why take a forge mark off?

Some forge houses put their mark on the areas that get machined off. Some companies produce in such limited quantities that one forge house can keep up with their demand. There are no rules or requirements that the forge marks be visible.

As explained earlier, the mark only shows where the initial lump of aluminum originated - it does not convey quality of the finished product, as anyone can purchase a forging - what happens to it after is where the product is judged.

We stand behind our receivers, and know what they are made of and how they are made. We back that up with a lifetime warranty.

My offer still stands, please IM me your order information if you have to have that mark, and I will see if we can either find a complete upper or whip one up.

IanMor
09-13-2016, 07:26 PM
Burdette

30 day ban for trolling our vendors.

notasheeple
09-13-2016, 08:36 PM
I was not aware that forge marks are normally removed. I guess I truly have been fortunate with the "luck of the draw". I thought it was commonplace since I've always received a forge marking on every AR upper I've gotten over the years.

notasheeple
09-13-2016, 08:39 PM
Edit by PSA: Thank you for your stunningly well thought out opinion. Please keep it to yourself next time.

Why are you being condescending when I'm just asking clarification questions?

I find that unprofessional.

Still, thank you for taking the time to help me better understand your products.

IanMor
09-13-2016, 08:53 PM
Why are you being condescending when I'm just asking clarification questions?

I find that unprofessional.

Still, thank you for taking the time to help me better understand your products.

Burdette is not affiliated with PSA. He was butting in to try to confuse the issue, and he has been banned for it.

Palmetto State Armory
09-13-2016, 10:47 PM
Why are you being condescending when I'm just asking clarification questions?

I find that unprofessional.

Still, thank you for taking the time to help me better understand your products.

Sorry for the confusion. Burdette's remark was removed. My comment was in response to the removed comment.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

notasheeple
09-14-2016, 07:35 PM
I understand. ^^

Dear PSA member,

I received an email from Customer Service today, and there is one thing that I do not understand.

"It is usually cost-prohibitive to remove the forging mark"

If this is cost prohibitive then why is it done?

I'm just trying to understand the reason for doing so.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

uncommonsense
09-14-2016, 11:27 PM
I understand. ^^

Dear PSA member,

I received an email from Customer Service today, and there is one thing that I do not understand.

"It is usually cost-prohibitive to remove the forging mark"

If this is cost prohibitive then why is it done?

I'm just trying to understand the reason for doing so.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.
It sounds to me like they thought you were talking about the mark left from the forging process, similar to the parting line on a mold or casting, and not the identifying mark that the forge intentionally puts on their part to show who forged it. Maybe you can post the conversation rather than excerpt so there is some context.

It's been explained in this thread that the forging houses may or may not include an identifying mark, and some of them that do include a mark may put it in a place where it will be machined off, say for example where the picatinny rails end up being machined.

notasheeple
09-15-2016, 06:43 AM
^^The CS Rep and another employee are fully aware I was talking about the Anchor forge mark.

So I'm curious if it is "cost prohibitive" to remove the Anchor mark, then why is it done at all?

I have AR's from Colt, Bushmaster etc and all have the Forge Marking left intact on the upper receiver.

The PSA rep on here did PM he would try to get one sent out with a Forge Mark (I appreciate the contact and attempt.)

A CS rep and another PSA employee emailed me it's not possible.

And that is where the "Cost Prohibitive" statement came from.

Palmetto State Armory
09-15-2016, 09:22 AM
^^The CS Rep and another employee are fully aware I was talking about the Anchor forge mark.

So I'm curious if it is "cost prohibitive" to remove the Anchor mark, then why is it done at all?

Its cost prohibitive to machine an AH mark because (1)it sits in an area that is not machined (2) it would add machine time to the process, and in this business every second of machine time counts. In reality, the mark adds not one bit to the quality or function of the upper, so we don't do anything to it.

Understand that not every company wants the public to know they share raw materials with the competition - it takes away from the mystique of the brand. For this reason, some forge houses either put their mark where it is machined off (on the bottom, or on top where the rails are), or do not put one at all.



A CS rep and another PSA employee emailed me it's not possible.
.

Exactly. It is not possible to specify a particular forge mark, through regular channels, for all the reasons explained above. CS simply cannot sort for something that is not accounted for.

That is why I asked you to PM me here. I can either manually sort through regular production, currently on the floor, to find an upper like yours with an AH, or have one made, special for you. You just need to PM me your order number.

notasheeple
09-18-2016, 04:01 PM
Thank you to the PSA rep on here who quickly found a Forge Marked upper and has started the process to swap my unmarked upper out.

I will post when the new item is in hand. The unmarked upper is being mailed back tomorrow.

frankstang
09-18-2016, 04:24 PM
Thank you to the PSA rep on here who quickly found a Forge Marked upper and has started the process to swap my unmarked upper out.

I will post when the new item is in hand. The unmarked upper is being mailed back tomorrow.

Glad you got it sorted.
While I understand everything stated by Palmetto State in the description about forge markings, like you, I prefer the marking and wouldn't buy the part without it. Parts without some identifying mark such as a forge marking are suspect in my eyes. I have no idea where they originated and thus no idea about the quality or lack thereof.

Palmetto State Armory
09-18-2016, 09:36 PM
And in the case of ar uppers, the forge mark has been given way more importance than it is due.

You have a lifetime warranty from PSA that the forging is 7075 t6 and has been machined and finished correctly.




Glad you got it sorted.
Parts without some identifying mark such as a forge marking are suspect in my eyes. I have no idea where they originated and thus no idea about the quality or lack thereof.

vellnueve
09-21-2016, 01:04 AM
Glad you got it sorted.
While I understand everything stated by Palmetto State in the description about forge markings, like you, I prefer the marking and wouldn't buy the part without it. Parts without some identifying mark such as a forge marking are suspect in my eyes. I have no idea where they originated and thus no idea about the quality or lack thereof.

There's only a few places that make the raw forgings. Frankly, none are suspect. All of them produce forgings for major manufacturers.

notasheeple
09-22-2016, 07:42 PM
Today I received my replacement upper.

This upper bears the PSA logo, the Anchor Harvey forge mark and T-marks.

The initial upper I was sent from PSA had none of these. Photographs below for comparison.

I am happy to receive a PSA marked upper with the other markings noted. The turn around time was fast.

Initial product sent:

http://i.imgur.com/H6jYddBb.jpg (http://imgur.com/H6jYddB)

http://i.imgur.com/yB2p2wMb.jpg (http://imgur.com/yB2p2wM)

http://i.imgur.com/iGQ4rsdb.jpg (http://imgur.com/iGQ4rsd)

Replacement product received today:

http://i.imgur.com/8uzsmd5b.jpg (http://imgur.com/8uzsmd5)

http://i.imgur.com/E7il8ajb.jpg (http://imgur.com/E7il8aj)

http://i.imgur.com/6Vu1Qsmb.jpg (http://imgur.com/6Vu1Qsm)

jmano
09-22-2016, 09:23 PM
We stand behind our receivers, and know what they are made of and how they are made. We back that up with a lifetime warranty.


This is all I care about, I don't care if the receiver has a forge mark, no forge mark or an etching of your grandmother.

I also think it's a testament to the company to see how well the PSA rep here handled the situation and was willing to hold this conversation.

Palmetto State Armory
09-23-2016, 07:40 AM
This is all I care about, I don't care if the receiver has a forge mark, no forge mark or an etching of your grandmother.

I also think it's a testament to the company to see how well the PSA rep here handled the situation and was willing to hold this conversation.

Thanks. It was easy, we are enthusiasts too.

notasheeple
09-24-2016, 07:35 AM
PSA,

Thank you for answering my questions and the way the situation was handled.

Since the Warranty policy only mentions Firearms, I am glad to now know all PSA products have a Lifetime Warranty.

I look forward to my next PSA purchase.

Happy Shooting!