Any Milled F/A AK's out there on the registry?

Just curious if anyone has seen or heard of one.

as sure as you are breathing there are transferable and post 86 milled AK-47 out there. I seen a transferable one up for sale a year or so back on a NFA board........special price just for you, twenty-something thousand dollars, it was a amnesty registered.

Saw one with milled receiver on subguns.com about two weeks ago, in the $15 - 17K range. No longer listed

Steve

Maybe originals.

But it seems very hard for your average joe to slot that rail. Youd actually have to come in through the SIDE of the receiver with a drill/mill

Plenty of VN war bringbacks...both registered and unregistered.

Should be some converted Valmet 62's around. Also right after 19 May 1986 there were register auto sears. These were married to some receivers on approval. Only certain receivers were approved and ATF said it had mostly to do when the receiver was imported. It was very odd. Some of the same receivers from the same dates and serial number ranges were approved and some were denied. Not sure if any of those sears were approved in milled receivers but I know some made it in to Yugo's imported as semi auto's. ATF quit approving the registered auto sears in AK before the registered sears ran out. The deal was similar to the FNC sears but ATF decided too many receiver mods were required. This took some pre-ban semi auto's off the market and I think they didn't want to allow to the registered sears in post ban semi auto's. It is possible that some of the sears made it in to milled receivers. I've heard of registered auto sears for AK's that didn't require the axis pin holes just slotting of the right rail. The ones I saw were standard auto sears and had all standard auto AK holes, axis pin and rail. As far as I could tell they work just like a standard AK auto sear. The ones I saw were installed in stamped Yugo's.

Should be some converted Valmet 62's around. Also right after 19 May 1986 there were register auto sears. These were married to some receivers on approval. Only certain receivers were approved and ATF said it had mostly to do when the receiver was imported. It was very odd. Some of the same receivers from the same dates and serial number ranges were approved and some were denied. Not sure if any of those sears were approved in milled receivers but I know some made it in to Yugo's imported as semi auto's..
Yup :sidegrin_
And I shall say no more.

There's been a few pop up lately on the boards in the $17-20k range..

Don't know if this counts towards your question, but I have three AK's; one Zastava M70 AB2, one East German MPiKM converted to MPIKMS-72 standards, and one fixed-stock Chinese/Albanian stamped-reciever Type-56 with the folding spike bayonet. All are legally registered full-autos, but I had a long way to go before I could get the certification to buy them. I live in Norway.

I remember up until about ten years ago, it was possible for people with the right certification, to buy used full-autos from a Swiss company, for prices as low as approx. US $ 500. All weapons sold by that company were military-grade firearms, I remember they sold East German AK's, Chinese AK's, Czech 58's, Romainian AK's, Polish AK's and so forth. They sold both 7,62 and 5,45 mm types, and also several sniper types, like the Romanian PSL and Zastava M76.

A friend of mine bought a brand new Zastava M76 rifle from this company, for approx. US $ 1200, with the scope, sling, bayonet, extra mags, military bag for transport, cleaning kit and all.

Another friend of mine bought a well used, but in good condition, M59-66 Yugo SKS variant for approx. US $ 100. It was a lot cheaper to buy guns in general in those days, but I'm not sure if that company even exists any longer.

MPIKMS-72

Could you share a bit about the 'certification' process over there? How complicated, and about how long does it usually take? Is it outragously expensive?

Here it's fairly simple. COST of the WEAPON is the biggest hurdle. Everything is pre-'86, so they're collectable antiques in limited numbers. That's why they're so expensive. Prices are on the decrease right now due to political wind shift & high ammo prices

Steve

To explain that, i need to tell a little bit about myself. For my part it started out quite simple; Ever since I was a little boy, I've had an interest in what happened in my hometown during the Second World War, my hometown was occupied by 3000 German soldiers, which is a lot in a small town that back then housed about 12000 people. My hometown is literally full of old bunkers from the great fortifications the Germans built here.

At the age of 14, I joined the group of local historical researchers and attended every meeting and fieldtrip I could participate in. Other members of the local historians' board were members of the local Military Vehicle Preservation Assembly, so I also joined in there, since I took over my father's old and battered [i.e. not running order] 1941 BMW R75 motorcycle.

Through the procject of "restoring" the bike, I got to a lot of assistance from some vehicle enthusiasts that were part of the local range-shooters assembly concerned with the preservation of military firearms for historical purposes, and I also started attending their meetings as often as I could. Now, these were the guys that actually introduced me live-firing weapons, and I joined them and got to try their German Mauser carbines and some pistols, I remember being very impressed by shooting a Luger for the first time. After being a paying and frequently attending member of this assembly, which had close ties to the Norwegian (National) Home Defense and Armed Forces Museum, I could, at the age of 18, apply for a permission to purchase full-auto weapons on the basis of an weapons-technical-historical background.



To get this permission, I had to fulfill the following criteria;

-I had to be at least 18 years of age.

-I had to have no criminal record.

-I had to have no history as a psychiatric patient.

-I had to be a member of an officially approved assembly devoted to the preservation of firearms of a certain historical value, and my membership had to have lasted for a period of at least 24 months.

-I had to have a certain amount of hours of firearms practise at the shooting range, logged by the officials in the local gun-preservation assembly [for this purpose].

-I had to get the approval and evaluation from the chairman of the regional [not local] historical researchers that my interest in fully automatic firearms were for pure historical purposes. This was carried out in such a way: The chairman of the regional historical researchers conferred with the chairman of the local historical researchers, and then made an independent desicion based on the local chairman's statements regarding me and my behaviour/attitude towards items that got the local historical researchers' attention. [Remember, a lot of the old equipment we handle and focus on in the local historical researchers assembly, has swastikas and such on it, I guess they wanted to make sure I was not a neo-nazi or some kind of extremist.]

-I had to get the approval from the chairman and three senior members of the regional [again, not local] range-shooters assembly concerned with the preservation of military firearms for a historical purpose. This was carried out in such a way: The chairman of the regional range-shooters assembly concerned with the preservation of military firearms for a historical purpose conferred with the chairman of the local range-shooters assembly concerned with the preservation of military firearms for a historical purpose, and then made an independent desicion based on the local chairman's statements regarding me and my behaviour on the firing range and my attitude towards weapons in general.

-I had to get an approval from the local chief of police.

-I had to show proof that I had proper storage fasilities for the weapons concerned.


Then I had to fill out about a Redwood's worth of forms regarding my purpose of acquiring fully automatic weapons. This, I was later told, should conform with the statements from the above mentioned chairmen.

After this, the process of getting the approval from the authorities took about six months or so, [bureaucrasy is a heavy and slow process in Norway], but I finally got it, and could then buy any type of fully automatic hand-held firearm I deemed appropriate.

To purchase or acquire a spesific full-auto firearm, I then had to fill out a form as any other gun-buyer, but I also had to attach copies of my approval to buy fully automatic firearms and a statement that said that I had not violated any of the terms needed to buy full-autos since I got the approval in the first place.

Then there has always been all the paperwork needed to import a full-auto [or any firearm, for that matter] from another country, since there weren't really any major domestic importers of full-autos around, due to extremely limited marked for it, compared to the market for semi-autos [semi-autos were usually referred to as "Sporters", by the way]. If you were lucky enough to find a domestic importer that had a very limited batch of full-autos, they usually charged unreasonably high prices for them. The prices of the full-autos from the foreign dealers weren't really bad, you could get an used military spec AK in fair condition for something like US $ 6-700, some cheaper, some more expensive, depending on model/make, plus transit costs and of course our lovely 25% import taxes. I remember one of the members of the local range_shooters assembly concerned with the preservation of military firearms for historical purposes imported a battered, but working full-auto with all matching numbers StG44 for about US $ 700 [plus taxes] in 1997, and that was a bargain even back then.



So you see, I basically got my approval on the basis of being a collector/historian, not so much for being a shooter, although I had to have the necessary experience and practise regardig firearms in general. [I'm not really that much of a shooter anyway.] There really aren't a lot of people in Norway that have this approval, by the way.

Anyway, my approval is close to worthless now, since the bureaucrats in our country has banned all imports of "firearms with a military look". And, of course, they have their own definition of what "looks military". Also, it almost never happens anymore that old automatic weapons form WW2 surface, they usually rather end up in the hands of criminal elements. I read a small notice in a newspaper a while ago, that the police had seized an old WW2 German MG-34 from a criminal motorcycle-gang in Norway. The article said that the weapon were probably stowed away during the chaos in the liberation days of May, 1945.


Hope this proved informational. My fingers are tired from typing now :)

-Dan-

Is Norway like Sweden where you can own and shoot semi auto firearms and own full auto firearms but not shoot the full auto firearms at all?

Good read :D

Thanks MPIKMS -

That was educational. Seems like you almost need to become a warfare museum curator there, to legally own MG's. It's alot easier here - for now

Steve

Is Norway like Sweden where you can own and shoot semi auto firearms and own full auto firearms but not shoot the full auto firearms at all?


I really didn't know it was like that in Sweden, but there are no problems shooting fully automatics on my local range. If you legally own a fully automatic weapon in Norway, you also have the right to shoot it at an approved firing range. Usually the hard-bitten .22lr and 6,5 mm Krag and Sauer guys at the range aren't too happy if we start blasting away bursts of full-auto while they're concetrating to get maximum scores and set personal records.

A little while ago one of the guys got a complaint from one of the seniors at the local rifle-shooters assembly when he ran a 50-round belt through his MG-42 in two bursts, while the elder sports-shooter was trying to carefully take aim at 200 meters with open sights. I have no problems understanding the elder's reaction to it, after all they are the guys that have worked so hard to build and maintain the ranch, so it's only fair that they want to use it at their own premises.

To avoid situations like that, we sometimes try to reservate evenings in the middle of the week, when the range isn't uccupied by anyone else. We also have the possibility to show up when the regional outfit of the Home Guards [a branch of the Armed Forces] have range-days. The Home Guards' AG-3 [Norwegian config. HK G3 A3] and MP5 guys are always eager to try out the AK's on such occasions, so it's always a plus to bring extra ammo on those days. [And it's always interesting to compare the AK's vs the AG-3's, the MP5's vs the Schmeissers and the MG-3's vs the MG-42 and MG-34's. It usually leads to some interesting conclusions :) ]

So basically, there's no problem using the full-autos on the range, we just have to be a little careful and have in mind that not all of the other users at the range are too fond of assault weapons.


-Dan-

:) great read. Gotta share the road.
Hearing an MG-42 probably brought back flashbacks.
That gun is still the beast.

:) great read. Gotta share the road.
Hearing an MG-42 probably brought back flashbacks.
That gun is still the beast.

Thanks :)

The MG-42 probably brought back some flashbacks for the senior, yes. ;)

MG-42 and MG-34 are my favorite full-autos. The AK's are fun to shoot, they rattle and do their job without complaints, but there's nothing like the MG-42. My friend has clocked 47 rounds of 7,92 in an exact two-seconds burst. It just goes 'brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp!' The MG-3 is basically an MG-42 with a different muzzle cone, chambered for the 7,62x51 NATO cartridge, and it's fun to shoot as well. The MG-3 gunners in the Norwegian armed forces carry a pouch with accessories for the MG-3, containing a extra bolt, cleaning kit, tools etc, and I noticed that one of the MG-3 gunners in the Home Guards had a spare bolt in his pouch for the MG-3, containing WW2 German markings.


-Dan-

Thanks :)

The MG-42 probably brought back some flashbacks for the senior, yes. ;)

MG-42 and MG-34 are my favorite full-autos. The AK's are fun to shoot, they rattle and do their job without complaints, but there's nothing like the MG-42. My friend has clocked 47 rounds of 7,92 in an exact two-seconds burst. It just goes 'brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp!' The MG-3 is basically an MG-42 with a different muzzle cone, chambered for the 7,62x51 NATO cartridge, and it's fun to shoot as well. The MG-3 gunners in the Norwegian armed forces carry a pouch with accessories for the MG-3, containing a extra bolt, cleaning kit, tools etc, and I noticed that one of the MG-3 gunners in the Home Guards had a spare bolt in his pouch for the MG-3, containing WW2 German markings.


-Dan-

The MG-3 has the different booster because orf the 7.62x51 cartridge and most MG-3's have a heavier bolt than MG-42's to reduce the rate of fire. These bolts are usually interchangeable so you can slow down an MG-42 with an MG-3 and speed up a with an MG-42 bolt. The one bolt that can cause issues is the Yugoslavian MG-53 bolt which requires a slightly different length firing pin. I don't know the Yugoslavians didn't make the parts interchangeable with the MG-42 while they have a lot of both of them. For some reason most MG-3 heavy bolts are made by Beretta of Italy. I don't know if Beretta designed it or somehow just got the contract to make all of them.

In Sweden they can own and shoot semi auto's and they can own functional full auto's but they can never fire them. They are for collection only and can never be fired even though they do work.

MPIKMS-72 I just wanted to thank you for sharing. It's always interesting to get perspectives from other countrys. I also found it very interesting that the MG-3 gunner was carying the old German MG-42 bolt.

You welcome, guys :)


-Dan-

I know a C-III dealer who has (or had) a Type-II AK that was a re-weld. Nice weapon, but the stock was a little loose. The Type II has the stock connected to a ferrule that slides up into the rear of the receiver via a T-slot and held in place with a pin. Post-86 sample, BTW.

Just curious if anyone has seen or heard of one.


I believe the record price for the sale of a milled NFA AK-47 was for either a Chinese or Vietnamese, went for 103,000 USD last year in some well-publicized auction.

t