Gun Show nab today... Walther PP

[cphilip]

Picked up this Walther PP today for... well... a bit too much but... I wanted it...

Paid $350 Out the door for it. Would have rather paid $250 but... ya just gotta go with your instincts these days. Coulda bought these things for $250 all day long about three years back.

Its a West German (post war) 7.65 (.32 ACP) so its not a highly coveted thing for caliber but desirable because its a real German Ulm factory one. If one is to put stores in that.

It shows some holster wear. You can see it at the front of the barrel and slide there in these pictures best as the flash sort of washes out the rear and exagerates it. There is some back there but its no worse than the front.

Not sure how old it is. Serial number is 393XXX

Not even sure what its worth. I figure it is worth $350 but probably not much more. I see them on Gunbroker sometimes and seen them sell for like as much as $450 if they are nothing special. Way on up there if they are prewar or Nazi marked or something. I don't think this one is "special" outside of its German made one.

The box shows Century International and is correctly serial number to the gun and gun is stamped C.I.A. Georgia UT.

Anyone got any historical lessons on that? Import time period and trail of import?

Let me ask you this, would you refinish this gun? Or just leave that holster wear alone like it is?


http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/cphilip/WaltherPP.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/cphilip/WaltherPP2.jpg

[Illuminaughty]

Fun guns to shoot. I have one in 380 that's a hungarian clone that I could shoot all day. Lots of kick for a little 380!

[cphilip]

Well after some searching around... It appears that CIA was selling these to dealers at some point. They were used. I would presume they were Police issue surplus in some country. Carried a good deal but does not look like shot much. The were selling them back a while to dealers for $359. But they are out of stock at this point. So they don't have them and have not updated the price either.

So I think I did OK since I got out the door for $350. Being as how it was local sale I did not have to then pay extra for Sales tax nor any transfer fee. Which would have set me up near $400. And I think they are going for around $450 at most shops. Did not get a steal but not too bad I don't think. Going to be less and less of these since they quit making them at the German factory in 99. They still make them elsewhere though. Just not German is all.

[pickleweedpete]

A real classic. I have a couple of old Walther's (a PP in 22 Long Rifle and a PPK-S in .380, both German made) and IMO they've never been topped. I'm sort of impaired right now, but I know that somewhere on the web I've seen the information you're looking for. If I can find it I'll send you the link tomorrow.

P.S. I'm never troubled very much by honest holster wear. I don't think I'd bother to refinish your .32.

[cphilip]

Well, after much research and study I find that it is a 1969.

I found one identical to where mine's markings are and where the numbers are that was dated 1964 and they about the right serial numbers apart too. And good detailed pictures of it to confirm the match. However this one does not have importer marks on his, its identical in most other ways. And the asking price on it is $450. Here ya go:

Link to the 1964 matching type here (http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?cPath=156_164&products_id=2516&osCsid=1a0873a13813c948658c904baba2a025)

So for realistic value I think I am going to place it at $400 for mine. Sound reasonable?


It is pre-new Eagle style. And is Ulm proofed with the Stag horn and the date 69 is on it where it is supposed to be. And yes.. the patina of the finish is sort of growing on me.

Although I have not shot it yet I have completely disassembled and cleaned lubed and inspected it. It gives every indication its fully functional, not very worn inside the slides and crisp. It ejects and feeds by hand very well. Tomorrow... it hits the back yard!

Oh and... here is a forum where I got finaly to a post that got into it and it was a link from there that got me to find the matching period gun to confirm it all. Good little site dedicated to P38's and PP/PPK's. Book mark it for that day you need it:

http://p38forum.com/index.htm

[pickleweedpete]

Well, after much research and study I find that it is a 1969.

I found one identical to where mine's markings are and where the numbers are that was dated 1964 and they about the right serial numbers apart too. And good detailed pictures of it to confirm the match. However this one does not have importer marks on his, its identical in most other ways. And the asking price on it is $450. Here ya go:

Link to the 1964 matching type here (http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?cPath=156_164&products_id=2516&osCsid=1a0873a13813c948658c904baba2a025)

So for realistic value I think I am going to place it at $400 for mine. Sound reasonable?


It is pre-new Eagle style. And is Ulm proofed with the Stag horn and the date 69 is on it where it is supposed to be. And yes.. the patina of the finish is sort of growing on me.

Although I have not shot it yet I have completely disassembled and cleaned lubed and inspected it. It gives every indication its fully functional, not very worn inside the slides and crisp. It ejects and feeds by hand very well. Tomorrow... it hits the back yard!

Oh and... here is a forum where I got finaly to a post that got into it and it was a link from there that got me to find the matching period gun to confirm it all. Good little site dedicated to P38's and PP/PPK's. Book mark it for that day you need it:

http://p38forum.com/index.htm

I had a couple of other sites for you, too, but it sounds like you've got all the information you need now.

$400 sounds plausible. I wouldn't argue with you. Of course PP's in .32 are available for less money than those in .22 or .380, but I'm not going to knock them. They are smooth as silk and sweet to shoot. I'd love to have one!!! :cool: Congratulations.

[cphilip]

Oh yea... its not the most "in demand" hard to get caliber. In fact its the most common one. And I guess thats why there are so many of them is Police trade ins a while back. However, those seem to be drying up some. About two or three years back these were selling for $250 and they were all over the place. But... whats more common now are the France assembled and the Clones coming onto the used market. And not many of the W. Germans anymore. Plus the fact that the Germans quit production of PP's and PPK's at their place in 99. I should have picked one up a while back. But I, like many, was not really that interested in the .32 then (nor now, for that matter, that much). However now it seems those too are going up in price in some configurations like this. So might as well bite the bullet!

I had always had my heart set on a German PPK in .380 (9mm short) but... those have gone through the roof. And yea the other calibers including the 22's are like up in the $700 range or more. And then I was handling some PPK's just recently and frankly they are almost too small for regular shooting. Good for conceal but that slide will bite ya pretty easy. I don't have huge hands but even still its a real chore to stay away from the thing on the PPK if you get right down to it. The PP just fits your hand better. The PP is pretty small really. It is almost exactly the same size but lighter than my Glock G27 that I carry most times.I already have a very small Concealed carry .32 thats a good deal smaller than the PPK and well made. A Seecamp. So I really did not need something as small as the PPK in the end.

I

[pickleweedpete]

Oh yea... its not the most "in demand" hard to get caliber. In fact its the most common one. And I guess thats why there are so many of them is Police trade ins a while back. However, those seem to be drying up some. About two or three years back these were selling for $250 and they were all over the place. But... whats more common now are the France assembled and the Clones coming onto the used market. And not many of the W. Germans anymore. Plus the fact that the Germans quit production of PP's and PPK's at their place in 99. I should have picked one up a while back. But I, like many, was not really that interested in the .32 then (nor now, for that matter, that much). However now it seems those too are going up in price in some configurations like this. So might as well bite the bullet!

I had always had my heart set on a German PPK in .380 (9mm short) but... those have gone through the roof. And yea the other calibers including the 22's are like up in the $700 range or more. And then I was handling some PPK's just recently and frankly they are almost too small for regular shooting. Good for conceal but that slide will bite ya pretty easy. I don't have huge hands but even still its a real chore to stay away from the thing on the PPK if you get right down to it. The PP just fits your hand better. The PP is pretty small really. It is almost exactly the same size but lighter than my Glock G27 that I carry most times.I already have a very small Concealed carry .32 thats a good deal smaller than the PPK and well made. A Seecamp. So I really did not need something as small as the PPK in the end.

I

Right on the money. I was too lazy this morning to add this but I have got big hands (I'm 6'7" tall) and my .380 PPKS draws blood every time I shoot it. Needless to say then I don't do that as often as I want to, but I like those little Walther's so much that I've thought very seriously about getting another PP in .32 so I'd have one to shoot for fun besides the .22 rimfire. I don't believe I can afford one now, though, unless I sell the .380. :mad: I really sort of envy you, bro!

[cphilip]

Pick one up while you can Pete. As I said... they were $250 just a year or so back. Kicking myself. I never really thought they would dry up I guess. Like AK kits. See how much I know? heh...

[pickleweedpete]

Pick one up while you can Pete. As I said... they were $250 just a year or so back. Kicking myself. I never really thought they would dry up I guess. Like AK kits. See how much I know? heh...

We ought to form a club for dumb people. :( I mean another club for dumb people. But we don't have an unlimited amount of money, and a few years ago I was just getting into AK's so I was blowing all my fun money on stuff like magazines. Oh well.........

[Bret]

Here's one I got about a year ago at a local gun shop:
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2752/manurhinpprightsmallrp7.jpg
I don't know much about it, but I wanted a 32ACP because I didn't want to get in to yet another cartridge that I didn't already have.

[cphilip]

We ought to form a club for dumb people. :( I mean another club for dumb people. But we don't have an unlimited amount of money, and a few years ago I was just getting into AK's so I was blowing all my fun money on stuff like magazines. Oh well.........


We'd be over run with members! Say... if we charged a fee.... ;)

Heck... it almost was so that we should have just taken out a credit card, loaded it down with AK parts kits and Import semi Auto's, and paid the dam interest. STILL would have come out ahead. Instead I wasted all mine on morgages, car payments, food and the kids College fun. What a dope. :D

[pickleweedpete]

Here's one I got about a year ago at a local gun shop:
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2752/manurhinpprightsmallrp7.jpg
I don't know much about it, but I wanted a 32ACP because I didn't want to get in to yet another cartridge that I didn't already have.

Bret, my man, you done good. I believe that's a Walther PP made under license in France. I've never owned one myself but I've heard they're every bit as reliable as the German made ones. Would you mind telling us how much you gave for it?

[Bret]

It was $250 plus tax if I remember correctly. When I saw it, I knew the price was good even though I didn't know anything about them. It was a no brainer. The origional box was included too. The funny thing is that the word "Walther" appears nowhere on the pistol or box. It's covered up with tape on the box and was X'd out on the pistol. Apparently, the importer was not allowed to use the Walther name for some reason.

[pickleweedpete]

It was $250 plus tax if I remember correctly. When I saw it, I knew the price was good even though I didn't know anything about them. It was a no brainer. The origional box was included too. The funny thing is that the word "Walther" appears nowhere on the pistol or box. It's covered up with tape on the box and was X'd out on the pistol. Apparently, the importer was not allowed to use the Walther name for some reason.

Interesting. That was a good price. Maybe the pawn shop guy didn't even know what it was.

Anyway, that's a nice find. If I stumbled on to one like it for $250 I wouldn't stop to think twice either.

[pickleweedpete]

[QUOTE=cphilip]We'd be over run with members! Say... if we charged a fee.... ;)

Heyyyy, ya think? :evil: But seriously, you did the right thing by your family, bro. Maybe they'll appreciate it one day. :rolleyes:

[Bret]

That was a good price. Maybe the pawn shop guy didn't even know what it was.
Actually, it was at a gun shop that has high prices more often than not. I think that since it didn't say Walther, they may have confused it with one of the Hungarian FEG pistols. I also found a blued Russian slab side AK47 mag for $15. It was in several other AK47 mags that were all priced at $15.

[pickleweedpete]

Actually, it was at a gun shop that has high prices more often than not. I think that since it didn't say Walther, they may have confused it with one of the Hungarian FEG pistols. I also found a blued Russian slab side AK47 mag for $15. It was in several other AK47 mags that were all priced at $15.

Yeah, they didn't know what they had then. Good for you, though. Did you buy the mag too? :p

[cphilip]

Yea. I have heard nothing but good out of the unmarked French ones. A few people will say that the finish is just a tiny bit better on the German assembled. But ALL the parts since world war II came from France. Its just that the germans may have polished a few things a tiny bit more. But the French ones are known to be every bit as reliable. And command about the same price from people that know that.

I finaly did get to shoot this thing today. Shoots great! I did limp wrist it one time and it failed to cock the hammer but it chambered a round anyway. But once I got serious about proper grip it then went flawlessly. Of course I am shooting a box of Brazilian ammo so it also might be a tad low powered.

[pickleweedpete]

I finaly did get to shoot this thing today. Shoots great! I did limp wrist it one time and it failed to cock the hammer but it chambered a round anyway. But once I got serious about proper grip it then went flawlessly. Of course I am shooting a box of Brazilian ammo so it also might be a tad low powered.[/QUOTE]


I didn't think you'd have any problems with the gun, but did you lose any blood????????

[cphilip]

Nope! Not a scratch.

I seem to have forgotten about grip there for a minute. More important in these smaller caliber blow back as they barely have enough momentum to kick the hammer back all the way as it is (particulary with low powered Ammo). Once I got serious and firmed up my grip it shot flawlessly. I let the kid shoot it and he did it once too. Again, once proper grip applied it shoots like a dream.

[Bret]

Did you buy the mag too? :p
Absolutely! :D

[cphilip]

A good day all around Bret!

Just a note to anyone reading this thread. I ran across the fact that Sarco is listing Manhorin PP police trade ins (Swedish Police marked) for $375-$400 right now.

[cphilip]

update!

I got a small bottle of Birchwoods Super Blue today and solvent wiped this thing and with ONE application I got it looking new. Just as it was pretty much. Took out all the holster wear marks and came out factory looking matching all the rest too. This is the one called Super as it is double strength and supposedly a bit blacker than the regular. Which is what this thing appeared to be was a fairly black blue. And it does match!

Check it out (the flash makes it a bit hard to see how close it is to gone):

Before:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/cphilip/WaltherPP4.jpg


After:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/cphilip/WaltherPPredone1.jpg

[cphilip]

update!

I got a small bottle of Birchwoods Super Blue today and solvent wiped this thing and with ONE application I got it looking new. Just as it was pretty much. Took out all the holster wear marks and came out factory looking matching all the rest too. This is the one called Super as it is double strength and supposedly a bit blacker than the regular. Which is what this thing appeared to be was a fairly black blue. And it does match!

Check it out (the flash makes it a bit hard to see how close it is to gone):

Before:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/cphilip/WaltherPP4.jpg


After:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/cphilip/WaltherPPredone1.jpg

[pickleweedpete]

I think that's definitely an improvement, yet it doesn't look like you've reblued the gun!!! Very nice.

Oh man. I've been seriously thinking about buying another AK, but I'll have to check out those French made .32's too. It could be my last chance to get one.

[cphilip]

Yes. Just a touch up and it blended right in. Only the raw metal seemed to disapear before you eyes. You now can only faintly detect its a tiny bit lighter around the edges if you get it right up close. Almost blends in like normal wear. It reduced it from 100 % wear off to like 5% wear.