How does a full auto work internally?

Hey all,

I have an AC556 and its been bothering me that I actually don't know how it works. I mean I know how to use the gun I just don't know how it works internally. What causes the gun to keep firing and what causes it to stop in a semi?

Thanks,
Rob

On almost all semi autos there is a part called a disconnector that stops the hammer in a cocked position after each shot. The AC556 has a trigger similar in function to the AK. There is a hook on the trigger that catches the hammer at full cock. When the trigger is pulled the hammer falls and sets off the cartridge in the chamber. As the bolt cycles, the hammer is pushed back to the full cock position. With the trigger pulled, the disconnector is moved into position to catch the hammer. The bolt continues on and the hammer stays cocked. When you release the trigger, the disconnector is moved out of engagement with the hammer. At the moment of release, the trigger hook has moved far enough back to catch the hammer and it only falls forward a fraction of an inch before it is caught by the trigger hook. If the trigger is pulled again, the process repeats. One pull, one shot, must release to reset.

Full auto uses a few extra parts to drop the hammer automatically for each shot, fire stops when the trigger is released and the trigger hook is allowed to catch the hammer again.

In a full auto gun, you have three main parts that cuase full auto. The automatic sear, the disconnector, and the same which trips the sear, usually located on the bolt carrier.

In semi auto, the disconnector will hold the hammer back if you squeeze and hold the triger, and the automatic sear is useless.

In full auto, the selector will latch the disconnector fully to the rear, making it unable to hold the hammer back if you hold the trigger, instead, the automatic sear will hold the hammer back, until the carrier slams forward, and trips the sear, thus releasing the hammer, and it will contine to do so until you release the trigger.

Actually, on the AC556 the disconnector is the only thing holding the hammer back when the trigger is pulled, the mechanism kicks the disconnector out of engagement with the hammer when the bolt fully closes. There is no auto sear and disabled disconnector like many other rifles use.

Actually, on the AC556 the disconnector is the only thing holding the hammer back when the trigger is pulled, the mechanism kicks the disconnector out of engagement with the hammer when the bolt fully closes. There is no auto sear and disabled disconnector like many other rifles use.


Thanks for correcting me(really).

Most full autos work exactly as you describe, but the Ruger FCG is based on the M14 action and they use a rather unique setup. Sorta like the way a lightning link works in an AR15, but the layout is totally different.

I've seen the innards of an AC556 just once, a local Sheriff deputy let me look inside his for a few minutes. The FA function is pretty simple, but that funky 3 shot burst stuff was totally confusing! I know it's gotta have some sort of ratcheting mechanism, but damned if I could figure it out just from a cursory inspection.

Ruger AC 556 Trigger Pak
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/AC556700.jpg

Most full autos work exactly as you describe, but the Ruger FCG is based on the M14 action and they use a rather unique setup. Sorta like the way a lightning link works in an AR15, but the layout is totally different.

I've seen the innards of an AC556 just once, a local Sheriff deputy let me look inside his for a few minutes. The FA function is pretty simple, but that funky 3 shot burst stuff was totally confusing! I know it's gotta have some sort of ratcheting mechanism, but damned if I could figure it out just from a cursory inspection.

burst has always confused me, too.

Burst is simple once you see it. There is a ratchet mechanism that moves one tooth per cycle of the bolt. After the third cycle it releases the disconnector so it will catch the hammer stopping the firing cycle. There are a couple ways of doing it and one method causes the ratchet to reset whenever the trigger is released , the other resets only after the third round. This means with the first system you always get a 3 rd burst if you hold the trigger down. With the second type you get whatever is left from the previous burst so it could be 1, 2 or 3rds.
Frank

I'm always suspicious of new members without a lot of posts who start out asking about full auto. It sounds a lot like a reporter trying to get some copy for a story about how easy it is to make an AK full-auto and why we should make the AK illegal.

Sorry Coinboy. We've had a lot of trolls on the boards in the past, and you'll have to forgive us for being a bit suspicious. We are law-abiding firarms hobbyists here, and we don't fire our rifles full-auto, because it's illegal to do so, and we don't want to endanger a hobby we have come to enjoy - safely.

No problem my-rifle,
I figured somebody would give me a hard time for being a new member. Sorry as I said before I have a legally purchased AC556 and I was wondering how it worked. It cost me $4000 about 4 years ago! What a great deal considering what the cost is today! :D Anyway building a full-auto would be the LAST thing I would ever do. Nobodys taking away my Legal AC556(and the rest of my arsenal for that matter!). This is why I joined Akfiles so I can talk about one of my favorite hobbies.
Rob

P.S.-Thanks for all the info guys. I appreciate it.

We are law-abiding firarms hobbyists here, and we don't fire our rifles full-auto, because it's illegal to do so, and we don't want to endanger a hobby we have come to enjoy - safely.

I'm sorry but the way you wrote the post above, it implies that shooting ones rifle "full auto" is illegal?

Perhaps, for YOU to shoot your rifle full auto is illegal, because perhaps you do not own a legal select fire or full auto weapon. Please keep in mind that there are many members on this board, and other boards including myself, who do own legal select fire or full auto weapons. You sort of threw around the "We" word as if you were speaking for everyone on the board, which would be incorrect.

Contrary to your statement, I fire some of my weapons "full-auto", because it's LEGAL for me to do so, and doing so, does NOT endanger a hobby that I, and many others have come to enjoy.

The AK Files is not popular or important enough for any reporter to be looking for that information. It's alot easier to just visit ANY gun show, and pick up a $15 booklet on how to convert an AK, AR etc. into a full auto. There, they can talk with real people who are perhaps purchasing the book and get a good story. There is a bit too much paranoia with some of the users of boards.

I'm always suspicious of new members without a lot of posts who start out asking about full auto. It sounds a lot like a reporter trying to get some copy for a story about how easy it is to make an AK full-auto and why we should make the AK illegal.

Sorry Coinboy. We've had a lot of trolls on the boards in the past, and you'll have to forgive us for being a bit suspicious. We are law-abiding firarms hobbyists here, and we don't fire our rifles full-auto, because it's illegal to do so, and we don't want to endanger a hobby we have come to enjoy - safely.

Well a lot of folks that love Full Auto DO Legally Fire their weapons and this is their and my hobby. If you can pay for a transferable MG and it is legal for you to own a Registered MG in your state you too can join in the fun. It is NOT ILLEGAL to own, shoot or for that matter do what ever you want with a Registered Machinegun.

Not all folks asking about MG questions are Trolls and are just seeking information. The Brady Bunch knows not to look in this corner of Firearms Ownership as we the owners of MG go through more backround checks and paperwork than anyone else in the Firearms Community. BAD Information hurts the MG Community more than any Troll ever could.

My take on this is that I think it was about time that this issue of having so little posting here on the AK Files and asking Full-Auto questions from whom ever was addressed. Donwantoi couldn't have been more subtle of explaining this in the very informative way that he did. +1 for the gentleman. And I also know that My Rifle, to my understanding, was just defending a well loved hobby (new found or old..doesn't matter..) of his, in the building/owning/ and shooting of this so called evil AK-47 that alot of the misinformed label it as, and when he used "WE" it was misinterpreted as if he was speaking for everyone that frequents these boards here. There are alot of us Semi-auto kit builders out here that forget, sometimes, that there are legal ticket holders out here as well that enjoy the boards too that earned there right to endulge in Full Auto/Select fire privledges. I think that Dontwantoi had even mentioned this before, in fact just the other day, on another thread that I was visiting..."There is a bit too much paranoia with some of the users of this board," and he's absolutely right. I think it's more of a defending of a very loved and respected hobby that brings certain members of this forum to confront low posting members that ask questions pertaining to Full auto function in fear of losing any right(s) that they have now> (or given any ill fated ideas to the Gun-grabbers of America) >to what they love, that's all. Just my sentiments of this issue. Ken in Pa.

Well Spoken AK Builder. And I concur that what hurts the NFA Community more than anything is Bad Information. How are we to gain membership numbers in our sport if folks are afraid to ask an NFA question or worst yet belittled and labeled a Troll for posting a question.

If I see bad information I will be the frist one to try and correct the Poster of the Bad Information. I feel this is my duty in preserving this area of Firearms Ownership that I truely love.

I am asked more an more these days to speak at Sportsmens Clubs and Gun Clubs about NFA Ownership and I delight in the opportunity. I have also tried to convey to CLEO's who won't sign an NFA Form that the individual seeking the Sign Off will infact aquire the item in question without any Backround Check or Fingerprints if they go Corporation or Trust. Some are Hardheaded and still won't sign, some listen and exclaim "I Did Not Know That".

NFA Ownership is a Privilege and I see it as one that many in other countries will never enjoy. Be proud in the fact that you live where if you fill out a few forms pay some fees and can pass a Backround Check you can join this great circle of friends.

John, "ARMS" does not include just firearms....and it aint a damn privilege, its a RIGHT!

I beg to differ with you My Good Man but try to have a BATFE Form approved if you can't pass a NICS Check. If you were to have say a Protection From Abuse Order Order hanging over you on your record you will find that your submitted BATFE Form will be "Disapproved". Having a Bench Warrant Issued for outstanding Traffic Violations in many states will disqualify you also. Have more than 3 DUI's in a 7 year span will have you on the "Outside Looking In".

A Drivers License is also a privilege and when you have it Revoked or Suspended you have LOST your Privilege To Drive. This is why they refer to them as "Driving Privileges"

NFA Ownership is most definately a Privilege and does NOT Fall Into The Catagory of "Rights". To further help you understand the difference between a Privilege and a Right, when you are arrested you have "The Right To Remain Silent" and once these words have been spoken you have the "Privilege" of choosing who will defend you in A Court Of Law".

Gun Ownership is a right.
The problem was FA's were not around when the amendment was written, and fall under Gov. privilege, it was also written so Government would not be able to control the people.. so what happened here? remember we the people have the power but we the people don't seem to care or are too few to matter.
The internet is a start and the Gov. knows this, that is why they are trying to control that also..

too many liberal puppets being used by the Gov.

So who cares if someones asks a question, this is a free country and you can ask any question you want, "information is not illegal"

Gun Ownership is a right.
The problem was FA's were not around when the amendment was written, and fall under Gov. privilege, it was also written so Government would not be able to control the people.. so what happened here? remember we the people have the power but we the people don't seem to care or are too few to matter.
The internet is a start and the Gov. knows this, that is why they are trying to control that also..

too many liberal puppets being used by the Gov.

So who cares if someones asks a question, this is a free country and you can ask any question you want, "information is not illegal"


Actually, Lewis and Clark took a machine gun with them on their journey, fired 21 rounds in 20 seconds. Automatically.

Thomas Jefferson himself approved of its use.

Now, lets get back to rights.

I know my rights, and I do not expect a 230 year old piece of paper to defend them, only to remind me I have them. I will do the defending.

Besides, what thet hell do you think "Arms" means? Do you really think the founders expected us to defend ourselves from the government using semi auto firearms we are so graciously "privileged" to own/use by our government?

FXBOOM, again, what in the hell do you think "Arms" means? semi auto weapons with no more than 10 imported parts? Don't you think the founders would have just said "Single shot rifles?(muskets)" if they meant just firearms? They knew civillians/armys of the future would be using advanced weapons, so they did not point out any in specific, they used the word "Arms" to mean EVERY weapon.

I see no problem with C4 or RPG's used by civilians to train, as long as its stored safely. I don't want my neighbor having half a ton of C4 with 50 blasting shoved in the pile of it. Maybe some desolate land with no population within a mile in any direction, a brick/steel building, locked doors, ect.

Keep in mind that for almost all of history, CITIZENS created/designed weapon in their garages/shops. Browning made the M2,1919,BAR, ect, he musta been one uh them milisha nutz!!!

"No state shall turn a liberty(right) into a privilege and tax and regulate its use"

Don't you think the founders would have just said "Single shot rifles?(muskets)" if they meant just firearms? They knew civillians/armys of the future would be using advanced weapons, so they did not point out any in specific, they used the word "Arms" to mean EVERY weapon.


+1

Actually, Lewis and Clark took a machine gun with them on their journey, fired 21 rounds in 20 seconds. Automatically.

Thomas Jefferson himself approved of its use.

Now, lets get back to rights.

I know my rights, and I do not expect a 230 year old piece of paper to defend them, only to remind me I have them. I will do the defending.

Besides, what thet hell do you think "Arms" means? Do you really think the founders expected us to defend ourselves from the government using semi auto firearms we are so graciously "privileged" to own/use by our government?

FXBOOM, again, what in the hell do you think "Arms" means? semi auto weapons with no more than 10 imported parts? Don't you think the founders would have just said "Single shot rifles?(muskets)" if they meant just firearms? They knew civillians/armys of the future would be using advanced weapons, so they did not point out any in specific, they used the word "Arms" to mean EVERY weapon.

I see no problem with C4 or RPG's used by civilians to train, as long as its stored safely. I don't want my neighbor having half a ton of C4 with 50 blasting shoved in the pile of it. Maybe some desolate land with no population within a mile in any direction, a brick/steel building, locked doors, ect.

Keep in mind that for almost all of history, CITIZENS created/designed weapon in their garages/shops. Browning made the M2,1919,BAR, ect, he musta been one uh them milisha nutz!!!

"No state shall turn a liberty(right) into a privilege and tax and regulate its

use"

Then Work To Change The Existing Laws Instead Of Expounding What Your Rights Are As You See It!! But As Of RIGHT NOW Of what you speak is a Privilege

Then Work To Change The Existing Laws Instead Of Expounding What Your Rights Are As You See It!! But As Of RIGHT NOW Of what you speak is a Privilege


Pop quiz...

#1: Why did the founders make such a big fuss about us owning ARMS?

A: So we could make hewy, lewy, and dewy orphan ducks.

B: So we could kill Bambi's mother.

C: So we could defend ourselves from tyrannical and oppresive government infringing on OUR RIGHTS.

#2: We both know we have the RIGHT to free speech. If the government banned free speech, do we no longer have that right?

A: Hell no you milisha nut, the government has the right to take away and heavily tax your rights!

B: I guess its a priviliege.

C: It doesent matter what the government declares in regards to taking your rights, rights are rights and cannot be taken away.

One last piece...you mentioned going and changing the laws...why? these people who push them have and egenda, they've been doing this for over 20 years, we've always beat their argument, yet they contine to come back pushing it, looking for the easiest way to scare the sheeple into giving up OUR rights without our consent(all they need is 51%).

Sorry, that doesent appeal to me, I pefer civil disobedience.

Your Quote 7.62 Blaster:Sorry, that doesent appeal to me, I pefer civil disobedience. End Quote.

Well in your search for the FACTS

Please try not to BS one that knows MG's. If you do you will be called as fair is fair and BS is abundent.

I would be greatly interested in the *(Flintlock Machineguns The Lewis And Clark Took With Them) infact if this were really the case anyone could build one as they would be Muzzle Loaders and exempt from any BATFE Regulations)

Maybe you had your facts misconstrued and were thinking of the AIRGUN that was taken on the expedition that fired at the Alarming Rate Of 20 Shots Per Min.

Again I will state that BAD Information hurts my hobby more than anything possibly could. And it just puts off potential NFA Ownership.

Links To The Facts:


http://www.city.north-bay.on.ca/lavase/97FRS629.HTM * Invented 1807

http://home.earthlink.net/~swier/Lewis&Clark_Exp_Firearms.html Firearms Lewis And Clark Took On The Expedition Mostly 1792 Flintlocks

The other gun of daily use was the “Charleville pattern” musket, the standard firearm of US soldiers of the period. It is a 69 caliber smoothbore, and is now called the “Model 1795 Springfield” musket. Both the rifle and musket weighed nearly nine or ten pounds and required most of a minute to load a single shot. Powder horns, powder measures, patching, and lead balls were required accessories.

Lewis's air gun was a remarkable property of the expedition. Widespread agreement is that it was a Girandoni-style air rifle, designed and built in Europe for the Austrian army. The Girandoni was 46 caliber, had a magazine for 20 shots, and was a repeater. Lewis used it to impress Indians in council. It was smokeless, nearly silent, and could fire 20 shots in one minute. The Indians were impressed. The air gun was the most unusual piece of equipment on the expedition. * This was an Italian Airgun and if one were to get a shot off every 3 Seconds he was "The Man Of That Time".

Lewis's air gun was a remarkable property of the expedition. Widespread agreement is that it was a Girandoni-style air rifle, designed and built in Europe for the Austrian army. The Girandoni was 46 caliber, had a magazine for 20 shots, and was a repeater. Lewis used it to impress Indians in council. It was smokeless, nearly silent, and could fire 20 shots in one minute. The Indians were impressed. The air gun was the most unusual piece of equipment on the expedition. * This was an Italian Airgun and if one were to get a shot off every 3 Seconds he was "The Man Of That Time".

Where can I get one? :D

your RIGHTS come from god.

OK, I'm new on this board, but am a happy owner of a highly accurate Romy SSG-97 (Romak III) - thank you 2nd amendment!

Consider the timing and context of the 2nd amendment - having won the war of Independence by defeating the occupying armies of England just 14 years prior - I read the amendment a bit differently...

I believe they weren't worried about protecting the People from their nascent Government, but rather the Government's ability to protect the people from subsequent invasion...say the Brits decided to come back again, or perhaps even Spain. Now, let's read it again...

"A well regulated militia (implies under governmental or partisan control), being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms (be they AK's, muskets, sabres or pitchforks) shall not be infringed."

What this means today is that America, with the highest civilian gun ownership in the world, and the potential to quickly form well armed (and hopefully well regulated) militias, would be one hell of a difficult place to invade and control...so pay attention, China!

IMHO, that what it's REALLY about.

Hey where is Coinboy?


Scott

Holepunch, Plenty of the framers stated in writing what their intentions of the
second amendment were all about. The Militia covers the invasion defense, it
is in the main body of the constitution so clearly had no need of repeating on
it's own in the second.

My concern is that while so many people are so rightly focused on retaining this right to arms, we frequently seem to forget what it is for and why we should have it.

We have it to keep our gov. from becoming tyrants. Plain and simple, that is
why our forefathers put it in there. Remember they had just declared independence from a tyrant and could not have won with out arms. Do you some
how believe our homegrown tyrant want-a-be's are some how different in relationship to us than our forefathers stood in relationship to the crown? They
were subjects of the King. Just as we are citizens of America. If the gov. becomes unbearable we have the right, if not a duty to overthrow it.

As evidenced by the recent Supreme Court ruling in favor of gun rights, I believe the Founding Fathers created a wonderfully balanced governmental system with checks and balances that actually work within reasonable bounds. Things do ebb and flow with each election but the ultimate fact is that we are the predominant empire of this age. Having now reached the heights, our defense becomes key. There has never been an empire that did not eventually fall into decline. It's a matter of how long (in centuries) we can maintain it.

recent "empires" have all fallen from within, as are we falling as we speak.

Many Empires fallen from within have been splintered due to factionalism either caused by the influx of colonial subjects or immigrants that eventually outweighed and overpowered the ruling class. Fortunately, we now have developed a very potent cultural neutralizer that is TV. Within a single generation, this fantastic invention can supplant their native cultures with the US Consumer culture that homogenizes the populace and herds them into shopping malls to make their individual economic contributions.

No, I still think the long term threat is external.

You may be right, I do know I pray China becomes a friend. They have a never
ending supply of labor, would be hard to put down in any kind of conflict now
that they have most of our tech. and supply a large amount of our hardware.

Nobody remembers the whole huricane cartina thing huh?
All the laws and rules are just written on paper. If you dont STAND THE FUCK UP AND KILL the 2nd amendment means nothing.

I have heard that in England late 1700's to 1830's is was a hanging offense to poccess an airgun/air rifle. The Austrians and others used them for politcal reasons - being silent / un-sporting / a danger to the crown. Air guns were made to be unpopular.

Cool an "air soft" / "air hard" sabot shootin .455 gun that would net a .308 rifle bullet. Belt fed - semi auto - full auto - bursts - can convert to grape shot / .410 shot gun belt feddd.

Best of all put a coffee grinder in the stock. Being air you could sell them at STAR BUCKS.
THE KIDS WOULD LOVE THEM !!!!!!!!

Down to the work shop. I will get the elves in the PRC working of this for Wall Mart.

I have been always interested in FA. But with more knowledge burst become very interesting. And makes the internal fire group look as complicated as a animated KOO KOO clock. Usuually knowledge is not illegal today, but some people think it is "not present company of course".

As every one has said above most FA guns are very similar to semi auto fire arms. The main way they differ is shoot multiple times - have more ammo capicity - whAT TO DO WITH THE HEAT.

Light machine guns

Medium Machine Guns

Heavy Mahine Guns

Machine Canons - Moderm Gattling Guns.

Open bolt verses closed bolt. Many FA of all types fire from the open bolt and have fixed firing pins or bumps. Most FA are not acurrate after the third round (3 round bursts) so the bolt slamming forward won't really effect the net accurassey. Benefits - more cooling - no cooked off rounds - simple mechanism. When FA gun fires from the closed bolt it is almost the same gun as the semi auto one but everthing is reverses - less cooling - can cook off rounds - more complicate trigger mechanism.

The main thing as mentioned in the previous posts is the Trigger group and Diconnector system. The disconnector is vital to any/most guns firing correctly. Without it many guns would fail to fire, because of the hammer following the bolt and not setting off the next primer.

Look at the diferrences of a Yugo AKM and a Yugo RPK - More massive barrell - finned heat sinked barrel to disapate heat - more ammo capacity - bipod and stocks set up for bunkers and fortifiied prone shooting.

Any way have fun and get some books from the library. This is not to say your silly or any thing but when get reading about one type of FA - many others will start making sence. At first stay away from the overly complicated German Guns. Tommy Guns - Stens - AKM's - Cute Chinese 7,62x25mm will get you goin good. The journey starts with the first step - which you have already taken.

Janes Small miltary arms in the library under reference books. It has every catagory of FA GUN, plus by country. Take the kidds to the library - don't tell your wife.

So what is the difference between fully auto diconnector system and semi auto system?

A "Piece Of Tail" Seriously :o