full auto without using the third hole?

I was out shooting with an aquantance today. He has a registered FA Galil. He was showing me that he has tinkered around, and made a contraption, that allows the use of the auto sear, without actually using the third hole.

I looked at it briefly, and what i saw was this.

A U shaped piece of steel/metal, inside of the receiver, right in front of the hammer. The pin that holds the hammer, passes through this metal piece, and then, the autosear. The autosear, is held in place with a pin that runs thru the metal attachment, but the pin does not run from one side of the receiver to the other, it is connected directly to this U shaped metal piece. From what I saw, someone could drop this in a non third hole receiver, and actually have FA without anyone noticing at a glance of the third hole. Does this makes sense, and has anyone seen or hear of anything like this before?

Yep, this is the infamous "AK drop in autosear". IIRC, several were made prior to the 86 ban and some were installed in AK rifles to convert them. ATF ruled that since receiver mods were still required (right rail had to be slotted) it was not a conversion device like an AR15 version and thus could not be installed in a semi AK. I think they "grandfathered" existing setups as registered receiver conversions, but no new ones with the existing sears were allowed and their registration was revoked.

Later on a different design that clamped onto the safety and did not require receiver mods was developed, but all these were post-86 samples.

Yep, this is the infamous "AK drop in autosear". IIRC, several were made prior to the 86 ban and some were installed in AK rifles to convert them. ATF ruled that since receiver mods were still required (right rail had to be slotted) it was not a conversion device like an AR15 version and thus could not be installed in a semi AK. I think they "grandfathered" existing setups as registered receiver conversions, but no new ones with the existing sears were allowed and their registration was revoked.

Later on a different design that clamped onto the safety and did not require receiver mods was developed, but all these were post-86 samples.

Have you ever seen one of these safety clamp on ones? I'd love to see what that looks like.

My aquantance says that since his Galil is already a registered FA weapon, that he can have that gadjet in it. He is an experimenter.

IIRC, the clamp on safety type was patented, so a patent search online might provide you with the drawings. I might even have a PDF of it somewhere, I will look and see if I have it.

Yep, the status of your friend's device in a registered receiver conversion is the same as a normal auto sear. While ATF ruled the device itself is not a "conversion device" for purposes of determining if the device or receiver is the registered part, I'm sure they would have issues with someone possessing one along with a semi auto with a slotted rail.

IIRC, the clamp on safety type was patented, so a patent search online might provide you with the drawings. I might even have a PDF of it somewhere, I will look and see if I have it.

Yep, the status of your friend's device in a registered receiver conversion is the same as a normal auto sear. While ATF ruled the device itself is not a "conversion device" for purposes of determining if the device or receiver is the registered part, I'm sure they would have issues with someone possessing one along with a semi auto with a slotted rail.


I think he is safe in that regard. He has a few AK's and a few Galils, all registered FA. The only semi weapons he has are some handguns, and a few AR15s. Also has a few FA AR15s as well. Yeah, if you can find a pdf on that, I'd really appreciate it.

You mean something like this:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/AKLightningLink500.jpg

The Device would be registered as a NFA AK Auto Link and treated as a Machinegun.

Nope, that's the SKS "lightning link", doesn't work for AKs.


I looked for the PDF and couldn't find it, but I have a lot of them and it could be hiding in the herd. If I stumble across it I will let you know.

You mean something like this:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/AKLightningLink500.jpg

The Device would be registered as a NFA AK Auto Link and treated as a Machinegun.


No, doesnt look anything like that. Imagine if for example, you took an ak, and cut out a cross section, right where the hammer and autosear pins run through. shaved it down a bit, and made it so it will drop into an uncut ak receiver. well, that sits in there, with the autosear pinned in that piece, and then the hammer pin runs through both the reciver and the u shaped piece inside the receiver. Hence, the autosear is in the correct spot, and held in place by both, the hammer pin, and the interior bottom of the receiver, yet, NO pin is visible from outside the receiver for the autosear. In his, it was visible because his receivers are alredy drlled with the third hole. It';s almost like a receiver section within the actual receiver, only, its removable. It's pretty ingenious if you ask me.

Got Ya Now. Below find a few pics of a Post Dealer Sample Tantal I'm putting together now. Auto Sear Spring was not in place for initial fitting as you can see and all internal parts have to be glass beaded to remove machining and fitting marks before parkerizing.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/DSCN0422-1.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/DSCN0426.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/DSCN0431.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/DSCN0429.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/DSCN0428.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/DSCN0395copy-1.jpg

I stumbled across the PDF on the selector mounted autosear setup, knew I had it somewhere! It's like 6 megs though. Either one of you guys wants to take a look at it, PM me your email and I'll send it out.

Kernel I got it the last time you pointed me that way and it was a big help in doing the Postie. I still have it on file but after doing one they are a breeze. Hard part is using the small Auto Sear Spring that has no long tail to help you situate while pishing the AS Pin through.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/MP5Guy/DSCN0046.jpg

Thanks Again Kernel,

John

Your welcome, happy I could help.

The PDF I'm talking about though is the aftermarket "AK47 lightning link" I referred to above. It attaches to the normal AK selector and kicks the disconnector out of engagement with the hammer when the bolt closes. No mods to the receiver required. If it was built as a post dealer sample conversion device, it could be used to convert any AK pattern rifle without having to modify and register the receiver. I could see a use for this to convert a rare variation without permanently changing it's status.

One interesting and reliable design is the 7.62 NATO(308) Galil.First the hammer axis pin position is moved to improve the lock time to match that of the M1 Garnad/M-14.Then the early ones had the selector postitions changed to the more standard Safe-Semi-Auto instead of the AK postions.This was because IMI wanted to sell the rifle to compete against FAL's and G-3's for sales.They found the armies that bought them were already familar with the AK selector positions and the new positions with an AK selector on the Galil was confusing so later ones had AK selector positions.

The bighest change in 308 Galil is maybe due to the change in the hammer axis pin position and lacks the third pin.The safety sear/auto sear pivots on the hammer axis pin so 308 Galil's only have two axis pins.This design may work on a standard AK with a redesign and reshaping of the auto sear.

I have been messing around with some drawings inspired by the 308 Galil,the Romanian AKM stamped auto sear and the Saiga bolt hold open.The 308 Galil auto sear is on the hammer axis pin.It is tripped at the same point in a slot in th right rail by the bolt carrier as an AK.The Romanian AKM late productionn uses a stamped sheetmetal auto sear.The Saiga has a bolt hold open that pivots on the hammer axis pin.

I came up with two designs.One rides in the slot in the right rail and is tripped by the full auto bolt carreier.The other is shaped around the right rail to ride inside of it and tripped by a semi auto bolt carrier.

I got the idea to mount it to the hammer axis pin from the 308 Galil.I got the idea to form it from sheetmetal from the Romanian auto sear.I got the idea to narrow the hammer at it's pivot and use a spring from the Saiga bolt hold open.

The device would be select fire and require the full auto hammer and disconnector.It could be a reliable drop in auto sear if the proper sheetmetal and spring tension were used.

If you get the details all figured out on how your set up would work you should send the info to one of our class 2's here for them to try out. I really like the sound of the idea of the AS arm reaching around the rail, sounds more along the true DIAS lines if no rail mods are required.

In this diagram you can see the 308 Galil auto sear part number 35.It works against the disconnector,part nr 39.This requires a disconnector disconnector for semi auto fire.,part nr 41.

http://www.gun-world.net/isreal/imi/galil/drawgalil3.jpg

http://www.gun-world.net/isreal/imi/galil/drawgalil3.jpg

The reason for the unique auto sear design in the 308 was originally for the selector positions to be Safe-Semi-Auto.This didn't sell so it was redesigned to the AK positions of Safe-Auto-Semi but the unique design was kept not because it was better but to allow the selector positions to be easily changed to FAL positions with a simple parts change.I've seen pics of the FAL selector position prototype models but the parts kits imported from South America have AK selector positions.