About to buy my first AK

[Kris]

i was thinking about buying this ak online from www.atlanticfirearms.com
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/RF109B.jpg

Here is the description that is given.......

AK-47,RF-109 Snubnose Rifle, semi auto, 762x39,This custom rifle is based on a imported romanian AK, upgraded with a chrome lined barrel & AK muzzle brake, black stock set, built in scope rail on side of receiver for optic mounts , beautiful smooth grey parkerized finish, these are nicley finished units , not rough like the cheap SAR 1,If you are looking for a nice quality AK47 rifle that won't break the bank , then this is the unit for you !!!The RF-109 will take hi cap mags & drums & is backed up by a 1 year factory warranty,comes with sling, cleaning kit, 30 round mag & is shipped in a padded rifle hardcase for protection . THESE WILL TAKE HI CAP MAGS
$439.00


The question is. . .
1. Is it a good price for the gun?
2. What is the difference between a regular ak and the ak 47 rf-109 ?
3. Is it a good gun for someone who is starting off
4. Should i get a .223 or a 7.62 (im think about getting the 7.62)

I have shot my cousins romanian AK 47 (.223) and have had no problems with it except that it jams up often (the slide pushes the bullet from the clip into the space under the chamber hole and bends the bullet, which we think he has a bad clip )

Any info would help me

[m03]

I have shot my cousins romanian AK 47 (.223) and have had no problems with it except that it jams up often (the slide pushes the bullet from the clip into the space under the chamber hole and bends the bullet, which we think he has a bad clip )


Was he using FMJ or HP ammo?

I would try changing magazines, changing ammo, or returning it to the dealer...that doesn't sound right. AKs should basically never jam. I've fired 2000 rds. through mine without a single jam.

If it is a SAR-3, try looking for "Weiger" mags. These are supposed to function well in the SAR-3. Alternately, you could use some material to build a feed ramp up to the barrel so that bullets cannot get lodged there (I've heard J&B Weld works perfectly for this).

[torque65]

I looked over this website.
1). These guys are EXPENSIVE!
2). Most of what they are selling appears to be the same Century imported stuff that everyone else sells for less $$$. The rifle described seems to me to be the same SAR-1 that I got for under 300, with some plastic furniture, a MB, and a park job. I'm sure it still has the crappy CIA FCG.
Personally, I wouldn't buy it. Not there, anyway. Look around.
My next "new" AK will be an Arsenal, but AFTER September 14th!

If you're looking for your FIRST AK, there really isn't anything wrong with the SAR's past the FCG. I replaced mine with a RSA unit, and it's frigging amazing just how nice a turd can be when you polish it a little!

[JohnLewis]

Please try to consider the Ballastics of this "snubnose" The regular barrel of an Ak is 16" to 16 1/4" inches and its not a barn burner in velocity at around 2350 fps(just like a 30-30 winchester) now it looks like on that AK they have cut the barrel back 3" to 4" inches and permanatly welded a AK74ish brake on the end to make it remain the legal 16" minimum. Ok so this one is just as long as any other you could buy that isnt "Snubnose".....and you are loseing about 60fps for every inch of barrel they hacked off! the adjustment marks on the backsight are not regulated for that low initial velocity. and You get far more muzzle blast/flash than a sixteen inch barrel(the powder load is made for the 16"and there is still ALOT of unburned powder at 13")...add the 74 break to that short barrel and you have quite a rude little gun(wear ear plugs with your muffs) at least you can make the guys at the range with the M44 Moisen Nagant carbines(another rude fireball spitter) just as annoyed as they make you.:)
My advice is not to get this one because of the configuration. also "RF109" is just something they made up..its not a soviet anything
the .223 Romanian SAR3 has one weakness....and that is the magazine, Most are converted AK74 5.45 magazines that they have whittled on the feedlips. So some work ok, some dont.
Price wise I would get a SAR1 romainian 7.62x39 as a first one, and If you want to try something different , find the SAR2 in 5.45mm (have one) magazines and ammo are cheap for both models.
I would'nt spend on a "Custom" Ak til and if the assault rifle ban is lifted in mid sept.then you can have REMOVABLE flash suppressors, bayonet lugs and folding stocks to choose from as features.

[Kris]

JohnLewis
thank you for your imput i think i will pass on this ak and go with a sar 1. I didnt even know there was an assault rifle ban to be lifted soon(probably becuase i just joined the forum yesterday and havent read up on all the topics)

now i have to find a place in michigan that carry's AK's in stock

[JohnLewis]

Hey Kris, glad to have been some help. any regular gun shop in your state should be able to order one from Century arms international or another distributer in in the publication "shotgun News" or the "Gun List" the only ones that will balk at getting you one is the big chain sporting stores that have FFLs.
(in other words dont go to walmart to try to order) Also check your areas larger city's paper in the classifieds(guns) for gunshows coming up. anytime you have a question just ask and all of us will help you.

[Kris]

I just checked and there is a gun show next weekend.
I know the going rate for a SAR1 is in the $300-$400 area. But i know that the dealers there jack up their prices because my cousin (the one i spoke of earlier) got his Sar3 there for $400

Basically i just dont to get ripped off. I am planning one buying my AK on saturday as well as my cousin picking up his second AK so hopefully we will get a good deal

[JohnLewis]

Well good luck and good Hunting, post a photo of the new AK when you get it...also a word on spare magazines...go for the east german surplus when you can find them as they are a rather well made magazine. SAR2s and 3s tend to cost a little more than SAR1 because they are less common(they made far more of the 7.62 models)and some dealer are jacking prices on the SARs because century arms had a falling out with the manufacturer and isnt currently getting shippments of them........of couse they may have changed with the news that the Italian govt seized a shipment going to century arms ,lately(detailed on other parts of the board)

[Packrat]

Kris, I'll admit I'm prejudiced, but if you're wanting a first AK (and understand it probably WON'T be your last!) I'd go with a SAR-1. The magazines are less expensive and the ammo is also. You don't need to replace the FCG (fire control group; trigger and sear, disconnector, and hammer) if you a basic understanding of hand tools (or even better, a Dremel) because they are easy to work on. You're better off with the full-length barrel; add a muzzle brake on it later if you have to have one, but understand that they are mainly cosmetic on a semi-automatic. Also see if you can find a dealer that will receive a rifle for you; that lets you order the rifle and pay for it and the shipping, then pay the dealer to receive it since you can't have any firearm shipped directly to you. And shop around; a lot of dealers don't like AKs or the people who have them and will inflate their prices.

If you feel like doing some work on the rifle, look for a dealer that carries Saiga rifles. These are built in Russia in the same factory that builds AK-74s for the Russian army, and are the military AK-74 modified into a legal hunting rifle. They are available in 7.62x39, 7.62x51 (.308 Winchester or .308 NATO), or 5.56x45 (.223). I haven't seen prices for about 6 months, but the 7.62x39 model was going for $200 or slightly less for a new, complete rifle that has pretty good fit and finish. You can shoot it out of the box, or you can modify it into a pistol-grip rifle that takes standard AK mags.

Plan on adding to the cost of the rifle at least 4 magazines and a case of ammunition. If you have a wife or girl friend, try to get her into shooting. This will make it easier to convince her that you need more firearms in the future, though it sometimes backfires and forces you into having to buy firearms for her also.

Last, let us know what you get (with pictures if possible!) and don't hesitate to ask if you have ANY questions about your rifle, modifications to it, or anything else. There are a lot of knowledgeable people here, and they're good about helping out newbies. Have fun!

[Kris]

I am definatly going with a SAR-1 Kalashnikov, the only issue I have is the gun show I will be attending on saturday will most likely not have brand new Kalashnikov's. And i really dont want to buy a used AK becuase i would rather "break it in" myself and I dont know how the person before treated the gun(cleaning/maintaince). So basically should i hold out for a Brand new Kalashnikov or should I settle for a used Kalashnikov in good condition.

And if i have to i am going to atlanticfirearms.com to buy it they have FFL's in my area on record with them, and if i purchase 2 or more they are only $309 each which is not bad considering my cousin is going to buy one also. So I figure if i buy it online with shipping and FFL costs it will cost me around $370

Actually my girlfriend doesnt know i am going to buy the AK this weekend. She is against all guns in general, but it is something she will have to deal with. Luckily I still live at home with my parents, the only issue they have is the idea of me with an AK. My dad really doesn't have that much of an issue because he was in the military in Yugoslavia and used to own a full auto AK from the Zastava plant. So if my dad does like the gun i was thinking of buying him a Yugoslavian AK, the only problem is that they are very expensive.

As for the ammo and the clips I was planning to purchase them online if im correct there prices range from $8-$15 for the 30 round clip.

I have read that if you buy ammo in bulk, it is better if it comes in the sardine can. And does anyone know what the going price is for 1000 rounds? I think i have seen the Wolf brand for $90 a case.

One last thing before I stop my rambling, how hard is it to buy 7.62 ammo from Yugoslavia?

[mbakercad]

...As for the ammo and the clips I was planning to purchase them online if im correct there prices range from $8-$15 for the 30 round clip.

I have read that if you buy ammo in bulk, it is better if it comes in the sardine can. And does anyone know what the going price is for 1000 rounds? I think i have seen the Wolf brand for $90 a case.

One last thing before I stop my rambling, how hard is it to buy 7.62 ammo from Yugoslavia?

$8-$15 is about right for 30rd magazines. You should not have any problems finding them for $10 and under honestly. A lot of people like the bulgarian waffle magazines. K-Var sells them for under $10 a piece. Just a cosmetic thing, but I think metal magazines look better with wood furniture with black plastic mags look better with black plastic furniture.

You can find 1000rnds of 7.62 for $75 and under a case. www.aimsurplus.com has some on sale I believe for $59. I don't think the spam can ammo is any better, just nicer for long term storage.

No idea about the Yugo ammo.

[Mahatma]

Chris, get another girl friend. Do not waste your life with someone who thinks it is okay to oppress others with their viewpoints. She may be a real nice girl, but they turn into women later on. At that point, any control-freak tendencies that seemed cute or tolerable early on will drive you insane. Look at it this way; you'll be doing both of you a favor.

Mahatma

[Kris]

hahahaha thats for the input Mahatma, Unfortunatly im going to have to keep her and she will get ovr the idea of me owning a gun .


and mbakercad i checked out the site for the ammo and i think im going to place an order (as soon as i get the AK)

[mbakercad]

hahahaha thats for the input Mahatma, Unfortunatly im going to have to keep her and she will get ovr the idea of me owning a gun .


and mbakercad i checked out the site for the ammo and i think im going to place an order (as soon as i get the AK)


Kris,
I'm in the same boat with the woman situation. Well, I have a 'few' guns already. She does not say much, but she does makes it clear that she has 0 interest in them.

"let me see, your looking at gun sites again...." :rolleyes:
"yes, yes I am" :D

[Kris]

I will be going to the gun show tomarrow wish me luck LOL

[Packrat]

A couple of years ago Bosnian (Yugoslavian) ammo was available at a good price. It is regarded as accurate ammo (for 7.62x39) and has a brass case instead of steel. If you want brass cases, Cheetah brand ammo is a bit pricy (about $.10/round if you buy 2 cases, about 3K rounds). Look around, you should be able to buy mags for under $10. Mags and ammo prices vary; I used to buy when I finished off a case, or when the prices went down. Wneh I quit I had something over 16 cases.

Be very careful with the girl; if she doesn't like your guns, you can be sure there are other things she doesn't like. And just as sure as your are that she will get used to it, she's thinking that once you're married you'll give up these silly guns and be reasonable. And all of her friends will help her convince you, and some of them may even get their husbands to help them. (You're permitted to ask the husbands if it hurt when they were castrated.) Demand that she go with you to at least one shoot and pretend to enjoy herself. Back this up with a list of things that she likes that you went to to be with her, and tell her that if she doesn't go shooting with you, you won't go to any of these. Keep the list and mention it frequently before you get married. And also start giving her the same arguments about jewelry that she gives you about guns. I'm serious, this is not a problem that will go away or that you can ignore.Been there, done that, but never got burned.

Don't worry about a used AK. Look at the "used" kits that come in and are made into perfectly good rifles. The only thing that a new gun lets you do is season the bore, and you won't do that anyway. So if you can get a good price on a used one, don't be shy. Virgins aren't worth the trouble.

[Kris]

Very interisting input !
I will seriously consiner and rememeber what you said illpost later on if i get it

[Kris]

ok i got a wasr sar 1 brand new its not cant'ed for $250 brfore taxes. I looked for one that wasnt a wasr but with no luck. any ways im happy with it im going shooting next weekend ill tell ya how she works :)

[mbakercad]

Congrats! Sounds like a really good price too.

[Nailz]

ok i got a wasr sar 1

aahhh the new model AK !!! is it just a WASR? hey i own 2 WASR's , and they are a super rifle! you can shoot the beholy jesus out of em' and they keep on a gettin' !!! enjoy

[Kris]

Damn im starting to tear up does anyone have a kleenx lol

thank you very much i just cant wait to shhot it now

[JakeTheSnakeOO7]

Everything I have seen from Atlantic Firearms is nothing but a cheap replica of other rifles. If they say they sell ar-15 H-Bars, believe me it's not and AR-15 made by colt just one made from the same plans. It's easy to produce a rifle but as many of you know who you buy a firearm from is just as important as what you buy. I would never buy anything from any company like this unless I could hold the gun in my hands first before I bought it. You can't compare guns built by colt, HK, kimber, or even the chinese polytechs to these cheap ass guns like vulcan firearms, or calvary rifles. Your best bet I keep an eye out at the gun shows and at local gun shops like everyone has said above. Oh, post some pics of your new gun and girlfriend.......errr, I mean ex girlfriend so we all can see what you gave up to get. Good luck with the AK situation hope everything works out for you. Hope you find your dream gir...I mean gun one day.

[Kris]

I did find my new dream girl (well one of them) I bought her yesterday for $250 plus tax

Shes a cheap whore but I hear shes great in the long run !(the gun not my girl LOL)

[Kris]

well I took out my gun for the first time yesterday (sunday) and it shot great ! it jamed only once (hp ammo) but after that it worked like a dream. I learned how to bump fire, which is pretty fun. I never thought you could empty a 30 round clip in around 7 seconds. As for cleaning the gun for the first time, it was pretty simple. I basically figured it out without any help. I removed the housing, took out the firing pin etc.. and wiped those all down and re-oiled them, cleaned the TCG and oiled them up and clean the rails and bullet chamber (where the round goes in)

the only 2 questions I have are:
1. Are you supposed to put a lil bit of oil in the barrel?

2. When I chamber an empty round(Im paranoid loading live rounds) the slide/action locked up for a while() until I apply a little more force to it and the shell was ejected out as normal . . . . . So basically is that supposed to happen?

[Packrat]

You need to put some oil in the barrel as preservative (depending on where you live). A patch with some oil on it is sufficient. If the patch comes out dirty, keep wiping until you get a clean one. When the patch is no dirtier than it would get rubbing over the outside, you're OK.

Don't put a fired round in the chamber. When fired, it expanded, and if you put it back in, it will be more difficult to get out. Also, there are powder residues in it, and while they aren't corrosive, they don't help anything. Leave your AK uncocked, safety off, with a half-loaded magazine (a round of FMJ over 15 SP rounds is good). If you need it, all you have to do is cock it. And the sound of an AK loading up will warn all but the most foolish that this isn't a place to be. If you have young children, this is a good time to teach them that all guns are loaded, and unlike TV and vidoe games, these guns kill if handled carelessly. If they have friends toat visit, this is a good time to teach them that visitors don't handle other people's things. If the visitors haven't been taught this already, you can rectify this oversight in their training. If they argue about it, let your children know that these people are not welcome in your house.

A good cleaner for your guns is "Ed's Red", a home-brew bore cleaner adapted from a bore cleaner formulated at the Springfirld Arsenal in about 1923. It's made from equal parts kerosene (diesel will work, but smell more), mineral spirits (paint thinner will work, but again, will smell more), automatic transmission fluid (any group; 3 is what I usually find), and acetone. You can leave out the acetone and it will work, but takes longer to remove hardened carbon. However, without acetone you can store it in plastic bottles; with acetone it eats through a lot of plastics. I kept mine in glass. If it irritates your hands (especially the acetone) you can dissolve a pound of lanelin per gallon. It will also help protect your firearms. After you use it a while it will cut old, impacted carbon out of your barrel and reduce the tendency to get copper fouling. (It won't remove copper fouling itself.) After a while you can give up your brushes; I haven't used anything but patches (cotton flannel) for years. Best of all, you can get all the stuff (except kerosene) at WalMart. (You can get cotten flannel there too, to make your own patches.) When you're though cleaning your firearms, use the last patch to wipe over all the metal parts and all the magazines. This will protect them if you shoot fairly often.

[Kris]

Thank you for answering all my questions. And the expansion of the casing makes sense I dont know why I did not think of that. And the cleaning kit i bought was hoppes 9 I think it worked pretty good

[Wesga]

Buy all AK Takoffs now.

[Kris]

Takoffs?

do you mean take offs like the folding stock ?