gunsmith misinformed and need help IDing oddball parts

[dalegribble]

I called EAA today trying to find a solution to a problem I have with my Saiga. I called the lady who handles orders for parts. She was nice and transferred me to the gunsmith. I told him I need a new bolt for my Saiga 7.62x39. He said Ok, you'll need to send it to us. I then mentioned that it had been converted to the high cap and pistol grip configuration with the US parts and all and would that be a problem?

He said QUOTE

" Yeah thats a big problem. You need a manufacturers licence to do that. You can't make any changes to the gun without the licence. You could go to jail for that. I won't even take it in the door like that."

The conversation ended there. I was pretty pissed at that point. I could understand if they don't want to work on a gun that isn't stock. But the BS about the manufacturers licence has no basis in reality as far as I know. :confused:

[avatarhammer]

You are correct. You do not need a license to convert to PG as long as you follow the rules. Use appropriate number of US parts and don't create an Assualt weapon by threading muzzle w/o welding, bayo lug, etc... and all that BS nonsense. You can't go to jail for any of what the EAA Gsmith said. You never know who is smoking what nowadays. Someone here on the boards can tell you what bolt should fit. I'm not sure whether or not you need anything special other than standard AKM pattern or not. EAA wouldn't just sell you the parts you need? That Sucks.

[dalegribble]

They won't just send me a new bolt. I would have to send the gun to them. Of course after talking to that guy I'm not going to deal with them. As I understand the situation the Saigas take an ak100 series bolt. The locking lugs are about a 1/4 inch longer than standard akm bolts and the Saiga trunnion is different as well. The bolt that came with the gun is not right at all. I bought the gun new and it sat around untested for several months while I did other things. Then i got the bug to convert it to hicap, pistol grip, US parts etc. Only after that did I figure out that it wouldn't chamber a round. On closer inspection I found that the bolt face is too small for the 7.62x39 round. It looks closer to .223, but the .223 round has a lot of wiggle room and the extractor doesen't hold the .223 firmly on the boltface. I'm really not sure what caliber bolt it is. At first I thought that someone had had two saiga's apart on the same table and got the bolts mixed up before briging the guns to the gunshow. But the other day I noticed something strange. The wierd bolt that came with the gun appears to have the last three numbers of the guns serial number on it. The reciever, boltcarrier, and bolt all have the same numbers, but the bolt is not 7.62x39. Does anybody have any idea whats going on here?

[avatarhammer]

:sad_small . Check if it's a 5.45 gun. You never know.

[dalegribble]

I was wondering if the bolt was 5.45. The bbl is 7.62x39, of that I am sure. The reciever is clearly marked 7.62x39. As far as I know there were never any 5.45x39 saigas imported. It may have been a fluke at the factory, but I have no idea how it would have gotten past QC. Everything I've heard says that the people who build the saigas take QC seriously. If anyone has some specs on the 5.45x39 boltface that might help.

[coltshorty14]

I don't know excact specs. But a 9mm is a perfect fit in a 5.45x39 bolt...

[dalegribble]

I don't know excact specs. But a 9mm is a perfect fit in a 5.45x39 bolt...


That may be the key to this. I'll have to double check when I get home but I seem to remember trying a 9mm in the oddball and finding that it fit perfectly. The question is how did a 5.45 bolt with matching numbers end up in a 7.62x39 rifle? Once I confirm that the bolt is 5.45 I'm thinking my best bet might be to push the 7.62 bbl out and install a 5.45 bbl. The ejector appears to be ak74 length and the mag well will almost accept a 74 mag. very little filing at the back of the well and the mag will slip right in. Any thoughts on this idea?

[avatarhammer]

Bulgarian '74 bbl should work. Not sure if you need to change out trunion or not though. Not sure how much you want to put into it, but some nice new Bulgy '74 kits have just hit the market (although with a kit any caliber (AK) is possible. I've been trying to locate a 223 Saiga for some time now. After hearing about your ordeal, I'm seriously reconsidering. Can't believe they won't sell spare parts (product liability? -- still should be able to sign a waiver or something). I've always been able to get parts from maufacturers/agents. Could buy most any part from Magnum Research or Coonan Arms (these may not be representative of the Industry as a whole however) if they had 'em in stock. Best of luck with it. I'd be pissed for months.

[dalegribble]

They seem to be willing to sell any parts except the barrel and the bolt. Why I don't know. The liability thing may be the issue here. I would be willing to sign a waiver of some sort saying it's my own fault if the new bolt doesent headspace properly but they don't seem to be willing so I think I'm going to go ahead with my 74 idea. I'm stuck with the trunnion thats on the gun as the serial number is there and nowhere else on the reciever. Thats a bit odd as they managed to cover the entire left side of the gun with manufacturers marks and symbols just no serial number. This could turn out pretty cool in the end,I mean how many russian marked 5.45 guns are there in this country? Maybe I'll have the only one:wink_smal

Thanks Avatarhammer and coltshorty14, you guys have been a big help in sorting this out.

[Packrat]

The Saigas are AK-74 rifles, with such changes as needed to change calibres. Somehow your 7.62x39 barrelled rifle was fitted with a 5.45x39 bolt. All you need is an AK-74 bolt in 7.62x39, and to get that, you'd have to buy another Saiga. It's too bad you didn't check the rifle before converting it, because then you could return it. But I understand them not accepting the converted rifle back. It's too bad.

A 5.45x39 barrel will probably work, though you may have feeding problems since you don't have the AK-74 feed ramp. And there may be changes made to get the magazine to fit. Let's hope there are no major problems with it.

There's nothing unusual about the receiver not having a serial number on it. I've never seen a stamped receiver with a number unless it was for sale alone. This is the reason that the 80% receivers should have no problems--they may lack the importer's mark, or the manufacturer's mark, but the serial number on the trunion will be accepted as the serial number of the rifle by just about anyone that looks at it. If you have a kit with all matching numbers, it will look natural, except for the other markings that would appear on the receiver. Since these are not serial numbers, I don't know what could be stamped on the receiver legally. Certainly such markings as "AK-47s" could be stamped. Manufacturer's name might be a different story.

At least you will have one of the few, if not the only, 5.45x39 Saigas in the US. Unfortunately, it will still have the 7.62x39 markings.

[dalegribble]

I definetly should have test fired the rifle first thing. It's just that I've never encountered a NIB gun with fundamentally wrong parts in it before. Lesson learned. If the gunsmith at EAA had just told me "Can't work on the gun, it's not stock" I would have understood completly. Instead he started spouting nonsense. The rifle sure seems to want to be 5.45x39. 30 seconds of dremel work on the magwell and mag release and the magazine slipped right in. It's solid with no wiggle. If a peice of pipe won't work for the feedramp I'll order a real 74 ramp from K-var. The most difficult part will probably be getting the old barrel out and pushing the new one in, but I think I've got it figured out. As long as it goes bang at the end I'll be happy.

[droog]

Why cant you just open up the bolt face and extracter for the 7.62?It cant be that hard to do with a lathe.