SBR Questions

[Nobby]

I have a Yugoslavian M92 Krinkov that I'm going to assemble into a short barreled rifle once I get the paperwork cleared. Was going to build it with an extended flash hider thing that brought the length out to a little over 16" for the barrel but after looking at it a bit decided I wanted to just go ahead and have it proper. The barrel looks just somehow 'off' with the extended muzzle device and a fake sound suppressor is out as well since it just looks silly to me (if I could afford, or had the desire for, a real suppressor that would be another matter). I know I'm being a little anal but there it it. Anyways, I have two questions:

1.) If I am reading things correctly, I don't need any US parts to assemble this into an SBR. Is this correct?

2.) On the Form 1 there is a little square labelled: 'state why you intend to make firearm'. I'm not entirely sure how to answer this. I initially thought about putting down 'collector' though I'm not really a collector of anything, more an accumulator as my gun habits are dictated more by ammunition price/availability and 'ooh, thats neat' more than anything, hence my AK and other Evil Balck Rifles fetish. An M92 in as close as possible to correct configuration sounds like fun to me :small_gri .

Quite frankly, I really want to just because I can and it will be about as close to the real deal as I can get. However, I tend to think that putting THAT down will get me a denial at minimum and put on a shitlist at worst. I don't really have a 'good' reason for it.

3.) Is there any policy regarding marking of an SBR? By this I mean that I may engrave 'my first krinkov' or something to that effect on the receiver. Why? I don't know, this will be my first homemade AK and I kind of feel like doing something to give it a little personality. I might, I might not, don't know yet. Obviously I won't touch the markings or serial number on it as, IIRC, that is a good way to go to the gray bar hotel.

Thanks in advance :small_gri .

[KernelKrink]

1: Correct, NFA weapons are exempt from 922(r)

2: "To add to my gun collection" works fine. A collection is what you decide it is.

3: You have to mark it with your name, city and state, model and caliber. Beyond that anything else is ornamentation. I would not put anything on there like a second number that could be mistaken for the serial #, but other than that ...

[dvanncvann]

2. FOR COLLECTION AND INVESTMENT

[masek77]

Is there a resource on how to legally register a SBR?
What forms? Web sites?

[pokey074]

Is there a resource on how to legally register a SBR?
What forms? Web sites?

www.titleii.com

[16r40]

Is there a resource on how to legally register a SBR?
What forms? Web sites?

the fast and condensed version:

first check to see if you live in a state that allows you to own a NFA weapon........as well as your community


all of the forms can be ordered from the ATF distrubution branch, takes about a week for it be delievered to you

http://www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm


yeah you can download the from1 and 5330.20......but that fingerprint card is another matter..........it's best just to order a bunch of each one, the money was already allocated for the printing and mailing of the forms, so you might as well utlilize it.


you will need :

2- from 1 (5320.1),

2- FD-258LE fingerprint cards,

2- F 5330.20 - Certificate of Compliance With 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B)


once you get the forms :

1)fill out the froms, all self explanitory

2)get 2 passport photos attach them to the form 1s

3)go to your local PD and get fingerprinted

4)get your chief law enforcement officer to sign the form 1s

5)mail it all off along with 200 bucks and as you receiver the approved form 1 back, you can build it, or have a SOT build it

[KernelKrink]

5)mail it all off along with 200 bucks and as you receiver the approved form 1 back, you can build it, or have a SOT build it
How would the paperwork go on this? If you are going to have an SOT do the work anyway, seems it would be simpler to just have him build it on his license then do a form 4 transfer instead of messing with 1 or 2 form 5s.

[16r40]

yes you could do that, but you will still have to do the fingerprints, compliance form, signature and photos........also the thing is, if the SOT is not in your state, where you can drive to pick it up from him directly, he has to send that SBR to your nearest class 3 dealer, and that class 3 dealers will charge you for that transfer to take place.......and that transfer fee could be anywhere from 50 to 100 bucks. if you send all the parts and the receiver, along with a copy of the form 1 to the SOT, he can build it and send that weapon to you directly, without having to go through a class 3 dealer, and you won't end up shell out more money.

[lsmurphy]

4)get your chief law enforcement officer to sign the form 1s


I know that every jurisdiction is different but how difficult is it to get LEO to sign off? Has anyone been turned down? Is this more of a hastle than it's worth?

Scott








the fast and condensed version:

first check to see if you live in a state that allows you to own a NFA weapon........as well as your community


all of the forms can be ordered from the ATF distrubution branch, takes about a week for it be delievered to you

http://www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm


yeah you can download the from1 and 5330.20......but that fingerprint card is another matter..........it's best just to order a bunch of each one, the money was already allocated for the printing and mailing of the forms, so you might as well utlilize it.


you will need :

2- from 1 (5320.1),

2- FD-258LE fingerprint cards,

2- F 5330.20 - Certificate of Compliance With 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B)


once you get the forms :

1)fill out the froms, all self explanitory

2)get 2 passport photos attach them to the form 1s

3)go to your local PD and get fingerprinted

4)get your chief law enforcement officer to sign the form 1s

5)mail it all off along with 200 bucks and as you receiver the approved form 1 back, you can build it, or have a SOT build it

[16r40]

4)get your chief law enforcement officer to sign the form 1s


I know that every jurisdiction is different but how difficult is it to get LEO to sign off? Has anyone been turned down? Is this more of a hastle than it's worth?

Scott


yes folks have been turned down by cheif of police, as well as other CLEOs.......it depends on the CLEO ......I have no problem with my chief signing the form......in fact I just sent mine out yesterday to SBR a HK-53 pistol. from my reading they have really stream lined the aprroval process since the last time I did a SBR, and it is a lot faster, it took 6 months for me get back my AKS-74U approved form 1

if you hit a brick wall on no CLEO signing it, folks have been doing irrevokable trust...there is so much confusion on these boards about how to go about it, that I wouldn't trust any of advice given........ each state is different on how a trust is done, that you can't take someone in AZ way, because it could be all wrong for your state.

my best advice would be to get with a estate attorney to do it, yeah it will cost you money, but you will know without a doubt that all the Ts are crossed and all the i dotted........doing it half ass or complete wrong might get you in a situation you may not want to be in.

[jmwilson]

After getting finger prints for a SBR and waiting about four hours, one of the deputies said what are you here for. I told him, and he said hang on. I followed him inside the sheriff's office. After a lengthy discussion the sheriff said, "Son, I cannot go around issuing people sawed off shotguns. There will be an O.K. Corral on every street corner. Hell no, Im not gona sign your paperwork!" Ain’t that where the sheriff killed some local boys for having firearms I thought. After he said that I stood up, shook his hand, and apologized for taking up his time.

Check this link out.

http://www.lwrifles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20





Mike

[16r40]

that is typical mindset most of these CLEO have about signing any NFA paperwork...........thing is they don't realieze that if someone is going to go through the hoops of doing the paperwork, paying 200 dollars tax the chances that he is going to commit a crime with that is .00000001 percent


as far as I know there has only been one crime committed with a registered NFA weapon, and that was by a police officer.

[FAL GRUNT]

On the Form 1 what have you guys been putting for Name and location of original manufacturer of Firearm?

-myers

[16r40]

On the Form 1 what have you guys been putting for Name and location of original manufacturer of Firearm?

-myers


whoever made the receiver, that is the firearm. for my AKS-74U it was ITM/OOW cleveland, ohio, if you are building on a DCI it will be DCI, city and state etc.. on my HK53 clone it is VECTOR ARMS, NSL utah.......... if you are bending your own from a flat, then you would be the original manufaturer of the receiver

[FAL GRUNT]

Thats what I figured. Thanks

-myers

[Bret]

After he said that I stood up, shook his hand, and apologized for taking up his time.
Mike, why in the world did you appologize to him? He's wrong. He just made up a bunch of BS to deprive you of his signature. You should have told him that you'll be making a big contribution to his opponent when the next election rolls around. Fortunately, my sheriff is good. He's signed two for me so far without question. I'll definitely send some $$$ his way for the next election. BTW, there are other people who can sign as well such as judges and police chiefs.

[jmwilson]

Bret, I grew up with a guy in town that is a class 3 dealer. He said he would help me get a SBR permit, but after what the sheriff said, I decided to drop it. "Why in the world did you apologize to him?" I guess because I'm not going to argue with a law enforcement officer, no matter how dumb I think it is.




Mike

[Kino]

Bret, I grew up with a guy in town that is a class 3 dealer. He said he would help me get a SBR permit, but after what the sheriff said, I decided to drop it. "Why in the world did you apologize to him?" I guess because I'm not going to argue with a law enforcement officer, no matter how dumb I think it is.




Mike

I am in the process of getting a SBR and as my first one, I am a little put off by some of the political bs of it. Its too bad there is no legislation similar to the CCW law. When alot of states striked out "may" and inserted "shall" it made getting a ccw permit so much easier for us law abiding citziens.

[FAL GRUNT]

Ok, another guestion, what is the difference between:

4b. Type of Firearms to be made
4d. Model

same different?

Ak-74 AKSU-74
M92 ?????
Ak-105 ?????

thanks.

-myers

[16r40]

different,

type of firearm being made, SBR

model would be AKS-74U, M92 etc.. etc... etc...

[FAL GRUNT]

Ahhh, thanks.

Im glad the ATF provides no explination for this form :)

-myers

[light load]

Hello, I know this is an old topic and I hope someone still responds to my question, but I want everything to be right for this paperwork.
Am I right in believing you have to put your name, location, caliber,and model # on the reciever? If that is correct; 1. is that full name or just last name?
2. For address is that full with house # city state and country or just city state and USA?
3. It says attach passport fotos; how do they want them attached? Tape? glue? etc?
4. On 3b it asks for name and address. On my drivers license its always first middle last. on 4a name & loc of orig manuf. Does that have to match 3b exactly First middle , last ? or is last good enough?

I think that is it. I hope I dont sound too stupid asking all these apparently self explanatory questions. It states on the form (see instruction 2h) or whatever. The only problem is when downloading these as you know, you dont have those pages to check with.
I will be forever indebted for the help:notworthy Kep

[Bret]

light load, are you going to use a home built receiver or a factory built one (like NoDak Spud or Global Trades) that you had transfered through an FFL?

[light load]

Bending my own.
Also forgot two 1. on the length. Its a M-92 krink. Do I measure it with the stock unfolded?
2. Barrel length, Is that from end to end or from front of the trunion to the muzzle?

[TapperMan]

Length is measured with the stock extended. Barrel length is measured from the end of the muzzle to the face of the bolt.

[16r40]

Am I right in believing you have to put your name, location, caliber,and model # on the reciever? If that is correct; 1. is that full name or just last name?
2. For address is that full with house # city state and country or just city state and USA?

if you are bending your own, homemade receiver, then you need to stamp all the required info, your name (first middle intial last), city and state, caliber, model number, serial number.

3. It says attach passport fotos; how do they want them attached? Tape? glue? etc?

I just used a wide clear cellphone tape and taped the picture on the form. you can use glue or staple, I just tape it on figuring it's going to more of a stable way to affix it


4. On 3b it asks for name and address. On my drivers license its always first middle last.

it's whatever your full name is, first, middle name, last and your mailing address. that is the name that they will go by to do the background check on along with the SSN that is on the FD-258


on 4a name & loc of orig manuf. Does that have to match 3b exactly First middle , last ? or is last good enough?

if you are making your own receiver, then your name (first, middle intital, last) city and state (approved state abbreviation is acceptable,), goes in that block, as you will be the original manufaturer. you don't have to spell out your middle name, unless you want to......intial is good.


Also forgot two 1. on the length. Its a M-92 krink. Do I measure it with the stock unfolded?


yes, from the front to the back, center line. if it has a muzzle attachment you include that in the OAL


barrel length, Is that from end to end or from front of the trunion to the muzzle?

it's measured from the face of the bolt to the muzzle end of the barrel. easiest way to do that is take a cleaning rod, drop in into the barrel until it rest on the face of the bolt, mark where is at the muzzle, take it out and measure the length

[light load]

Great information guys. Thanks so much for the help. I really want to get this right. 16r40 , I also sent you a pm in case I couldnt get an answer on this post.
you stated on the post that you needed 2 copies of cert of compliance and 2 copies of form 1 and 2 fingerprint cards. Is that correct? Why do you need 2 of each? Do they all get sent along with the $200?
Wow, just got the fingerprint cards in todays mail. More questions
1. Reason fingerprinted?
2.your no. OCA ?
3.fbi no. FBI ?
4. armed forces no. MNU ?
5. Miscellaneous no. ?

Boy they dont leave you much space to put your place of birth!

I appreciate all this help so much!

[light load]

now I am annoying myself. When stamping the reciever . thats no street address right?
Also do you put caliber 7.62x39mm or just 7.62x39mm ? Same with model just M-92 or model M-92.
I think that covers it all.
Thanks , Kep

[16r40]

Great information guys. Thanks so much for the help. I really want to get this right. 16r40 , I also sent you a pm in case I couldnt get an answer on this post.
you stated on the post that you needed 2 copies of cert of compliance and 2 copies of form 1 and 2 fingerprint cards. Is that correct?

yes,


Why do you need 2 of each? Do they all get sent along with the $200?

why? because it's the gov't.......hey, they could ask for it in triplicate......one of those form 1s comes back to you, the other gets filed at the ATF, the fingerprints more then likely get filed at the ATF and FBI. complicance forms get filed as well. and yes, you send all those forms out with your 200 bucks to the address that is on top of the form 1, where it says TO:



Wow, just got the fingerprint cards in todays mail. More questions
1. Reason fingerprinted?


I would imagine that they run it against their data base of unsloved crimes, where there is nothing but a fingerprint(s) left at the scene, or if you were ever convicted of a felony


the only thing you need to fill out on the FD-258 is

name

signature of person being fingerprinted

residence of person fingerprinted

citizenship

ssn

sex, race, hgt, wgt, eyes, hair

dob

place of birth

reason for fingerprinting......I put NFA in that block


leave the rest blank. as it does not apply

no you didn't need to engrave your street address on it...........you just needed to put your city and state.........did you ever see a firearm manufaturer engrave their entire street address on a firearm?

as for the caliber, either with or without the caliber. on my OOW receiver it just say, 5.45. and 7.62. But I would engrave it as 7.62x39mm, just to be more specific, .308 is also consider 7.62.

as for model, M-92 or model M-92 would be fine.

[light load]

16r40 I guess I owe you a beer for above and beyond. Thanks also to tapperman and bret. .....did you ever see a firearm manufaturer engrave their entire street address on a firearm?
No I never have . But like you said, its the federal govt. and I certainly have not seen everything. One for instance is a homebuilt legal SBR.
Anyway, I owe you big time , and really appreciate all of the help. Now if anyone needs any help in filling one of these out , they can read this thread and it should be fool proof. Hell , even I get it.
Thanks, Kep

[light load]

OK, well the one part is done. Got the Chief to sign the paperwork and got fingerprinted.

On the fingerprint card where it says employer and address. Do they mean your employer or the person doing the fingerprintings employer?
Thanks again

[16r40]

OK, well the one part is done. Got the Chief to sign the paperwork and got fingerprinted.

On the fingerprint card where it says employer and address. Do they mean your employer or the person doing the fingerprintings employer?
Thanks again


I returned you PM about that........it wouldn't be your emplyoyer, and my PD jailer, who did my fingerprinting, and has been doing applicant fingerprinting for years here, did not fill in that block on 2 different occasions when I did my fingerprinting, he just signed it........and they never came came back from ATF for any correction needed..........if your PD or sheriff jailer didn't write anything in that block, like mine didn't do, then the best guess I can think of is maybe that block is if your emplyoyer is a gov't agency or a gov't contractor who requested the fingerprinting for a background check.....again it's a guess on my part. But I would figure if it was for the person who did the fingerprinting they would have filled that block in

[light load]

Got your PM Thanks again

Guess what, on the back of the print card it states, identity of private contractors should be shown in space "employer and address".

Thanks again for all the help, I am off to send my paperwork in as my Police chief signed my form 1s this morning.

[boisehomes]

If I am using a NodakSpud receiver would the Model be NDS-M92 or can I put M-92?

Thanks,
Troy

[16r40]

If I am using a NodakSpud receiver would the Model be NDS-M92 or can I put M-92?

Thanks,
Troy

either of them will be fine for model type. I use AKS-74U, HK53, and MP5K PDW for my SBR model numbers

[Bret]

As 16r40 said, either will work. Personally, I put the model number that's designated on the receiver. Whatever you like is fine.

[boisehomes]

Thanks for your help!

Troy