Advice concerning FSB replacement on SAR

[Ned]

I have a Romanian sar with a canted FSB. The original FSB is pretty much destroyed by past attempts to relieve the cant problem. I need to get this FSB off the barrel and install another with the correct barrel alignment. The way I see it I'm down to 2 choices. I can attempt to cut the original FSB off and then install another or send the rifle off to a REAL gunsmith. What would be my chances of attempting this myself and getting a new FSB on with the correct alignment. I'm trying to save AK-USA for my Saiga project. I've given up on using any local gunsmiths after getting the usual.."those are junk"..comments. Kinda makes me alittle pissy hearing that from local gunsmiths. I feel like then asking them if they know any local junkmen that are capable of making this repair! Grrr.

Thanks ahead for any suggestions~ Ned

[Makman]

Fear not Ned, this can be done relatively easy. Do you have acces to a shop press? If not you will need either a brass or plastic hammer. Start by removing handguards.

Shop Press-After removing the pins from the FSB, support the FSB from the rear on two blocks of steel, protect the crown with either a muzzle nut or a piece of soft copper, a penny wrapped in electrical tape will do. Press down on the barrel and have a buddy hold the rifle in place while your pressing. I like to use electrical tape to protect the areas at risk of getting scratched, no metal to metal contact.

Hammer method- Again protect the crown. Get a good block of wood, place it on a cement floor. Cover it up with a piece of leather. Have a buddy hold the rifle upside down on its crown. Give the protected FSB sharp blows with the hammer.
In either case, if you have one of those welded on muzzle nuts, it must go first.

To replace the FSB, Clamp the barrel into a good vice, with some pieces of leather on the jaws, again I found electrical tape helps here. An extra set of hands to steady the rifle is a plus. And drive the FSB back on with a block of hard wood and a hammer. If the rifle slides in the vice, re-adjust as you go. I make final alignment by eye with a plastic hammer. I look at it over several days from different angles, until I'm satisfied, then I drive in new pins, drilling if necessary. You can't order a new FSB until you know the exact diam. of the journal. Hope this helps, go slow.

[Ned]

Say again about this.."You can't order a new FSB until you know the exact diam. of the journal." What is the journal? I need to see if I can locate a FSB.

[Packrat]

You need to measure the barrel diameter where the FSB will rest, then order the FSB with the next smaller ID. However, .003" is the most smaller I would go (.003" interferance). I'd be happy with 0 or .001" interferance, especially if you're going to drill new pin holes.

As far as the "this is junk" comments: that's gunsmithese for "I don't know my a$$ from a hole in the ground about AKs, so I don't know how much I can screw you on them". After this work, or especially after your first build, go back to them, ask if they work on AKS, then tell them they can send their next AK request to you, you are experienced in building them. But don't expect them to give you any referals.

[Ned]

oops. :( I didn't see a FSB listing different sizes and I ordered the 1st one I could find. (Tapco) I hope I get lucky and it will fit. I gave up trying to punch that second mangled pin out of the base and had to resort to Mr. Dremel. I gave that FSB a chuck into the backyard as it fell off! (ya- had to go find it then so I could steal the sight post and save a mower blade in the spring) :small_gri

[Makman]

Tapco is an excellent outfit. For parts that are specially sized, like a FSB, I like Global trades, because they connect you to the guy in the back who builds the things. If you need advice, they are willing to help.

[hcpookie]

Ned,

So you are saying it is finally off, right? You should be OK with any Euro-sized sight block, they should work. AFAIK the normal ones you'll find are Romanian and the most common are Bulgarian. This is a guess but you probably got the Bulgarian FSB? Did you call Tapco directly? Can't find any of those parts on their pages...

Here's the big question - what caliber is your rifle? You say its a SAR? That means its Romanian... Here are the measurements for your rifle, depending on the caliber:

EURO PATTERN 7.62x39 BARREL:
Front Sight Base .575" (14.5mm w/ .003 - .004" press fit)

ROMANIAN 5.45x39 BARREL:
Front Sight Base .517" (13mm w/ .004 - .005" press fit)

These measurements are directly from the Tech Info page from AA-OK's website here:

http://www.aa-ok.com/AK_Tech/aktechinfo.htm



I replaced one of my own on my Chinese model last fall. It is frustrating at first but will start coming together faster than you think. In my case, the journal sizes were different so I had to ream out the FSB to fit the fatter barrel. Like I said, "loads" of fun. In YOUR case, they will probably be the same size... Here's the photo journal of my "fun" with converting the Euro-style Bulgarian FSB to my Chinese barrel - *loads* of fun ;)

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/AK/reaming/reaming.htm

hth,
- Jerry

[Ned]

Yes, it is off and I ordered another from Tapco after a quick check with a dial calibur per everyones "headsup" about matching to the journal. What is the journal? Barrel dia? I was getting very frustrated after reading how others had easily removed their FSB by simple knocking out the pins. I even resorted to talking to that last pin for a time. When the pin began to answer me I plugged in the dremel tool!

Anyone have a good way to ensure I get the new FSB pinned on in the correct position so I don't see this anymore thru my sights ( i). Currently, I'm thinking that I will make some small marks on the sight and barrel and actually shoot a few "regulatory" rounds before I set the pins. Watcha thinkz?

ps- Fun sight..err site Jerry. :small_gri

[Michael64]

Ned
Is your AK a SAR 1, 2 or 3?

[Packrat]

You could try a few rounds to see how the sight needs to be, but that's why it's adjustable--so you can take care of some errors. I've never seen an AK with the front sight in the center.

Remember when adjusting the front sight it's the opposite of a rear sight--you "chase" the point of impact. So if you shoot left, you move the sight left; make the sight go to where the bullet hit. Same for vertical adjustment.

[Ned]

SAR1

The sights were like this ( i) Not good enough. I plan for this ( i )
I just couldn't leave 'em like that. It made me think before I could shoot.
lol..course if I leave the whole fsb off I guess I'd really be shoot'in instictive.

[Ugh]

Ned,

Did you get a FSB? I have one that was removed from a SAR2. Let me know.

[hcpookie]

The "journal" is that part of the barrel that was smoothed on a lathe to the diameter of the component you are press-fitting onto it, in this case the journal you are interested in is the part of the barrel that was underneath the FSB. Measure that area of the barrel, and let us know what the diameter really is. When you get the FSB in the mail, measure the inner diameter of the FSB. Since the press fit is .003 - .004 then it should measure .003-.004 smaller. If it is the same size or .001-.003 diameter, it will still work.

Since you have a SAR-1 its the 7.62x39 caliber, which means the standard Euro front sight should work. Did you say you found this on the Tapco site? Didn't find it in their list.

You'll have to eyeball the sight to get it to align properly. Some people use a metal carpenter's square to align, and you could also use a keychain laser pointer to align, but you want to get it as straight as possible when you press on. It can be a bugger to "twist" it on the barrel if its out of alignment, but it can be done.

hth,
- Jerry